Serious fluke question

[Bucksnbows]

17 hours ago, BowhunterNJ said:

We can't ALL bring Jack with us...

Wait, why not??

[SPEARFISH]

We'll see how many 17" people are catching in the bay after it gets pounded for a few weeks.  The complaint will be: All I catch are <17 and over 18 and have to throw them back.

[JHbowhunter]

1 minute ago, SPEARFISH said:

We'll see how many 17" people are catching in the bay after it gets pounded for a few weeks.  The complaint will be: All I catch are <17 and over 18 and have to throw them back.

The RB is beat up daily by the same party boats. Would be interested to hear how Sea Tiger, Angler, Misty Morn et al feel about this and what they propose.  That bay does not seem to have the fluke life it once did 

[hunterbob1]

Dan, the recreational fishery ends before the spawn. The commercial guys can still throw their nets in October November

[chenrossi]

6 hours ago, hammer4reel said:

Costs a lot of time and gas . As well as gear to target bigger fish .

‘The fight from a larger fluke isn’t anything like that of smaller fish .

it takes more skill to boat larger fish consistently .

many people hook bigger fish , way less see them in the boat .

most are lost on the way there .

and since 90 percent of the guys need to catch something , and think going to smaller fish will help them out fish in their box . Those than can catch larger fish are supposed to not ? 

when I hear guys state hear guys in a pissing contest just to show photos of big fish . Just says there’s a guy who doesn’t catch them .

 

This is a shared fishery , commercial gets 60 percent , us 40 percent .

so why are we getting limited to the year of age class fish that they can readily take ? 

Fluke are a NJ treasure , why do we have to share them with the world. , you don’t see Idaho giving everyone their treasure of elk.

The Dakota giving up their pheasants etc .

you want an elk , pheasants you go there .

want a fluke you should have to catch it here .

 

with a whole different bunch of year classes available , we should be able to fish for all of it .

it allows more distributions through many different years naturally based on a fisherman’s own experience .

.

once good fisherman target only smaller fish , you will quickly see them vanish .

the only reason their are so many around is we have been all throwing them back . I don’t believe there is 40 percent mortality releasing them especially if caught on larger hooks .

 

.

 

I'm not really sure any of your post lands back to answering my original question. This seems to be more of a personal thing for you (especially with the need to target anglers who don't have the gear, time, equipment to target larger fish like you do consistently) if you don't think the idea of it being a pissing match with anglers exists..you also need to look at the big picture; I bring that point up because that exists across all hunting and fishing nowadays. You can't say it doesn't, so the stab about  a guy not catching them, unneeded.. it seems I struck a nerve saying that....I do just fine fluke fishing for how I choose to fish and as mentioned, I don't agree with how tightly truncated the age brackets are stacked right on top of one another..you mentioned we are supposed to look at the "big picture", that's all well and good that this is a thing your passionate about, no one is knocking that. However, I'm a firm believer in don't raise your voice, change your argument if you want to be understood and have your argument heard. 

You bring up several other different species that people should have to go there for to get. What is lost in saying that though is most wildlife species all have restrictive harvest on females in the population (no hen harvest for turkeys in some states...no female pheasant harvest...limited hens waterfowl hunting, for example), or restrictive harvest management where males and females look the same to ensure a sustainable population..the ones they are trying to reduce the populations for have robust harvest practices and it is indiscriminate for males and females in the population (snow geese for example)... so why shouldn't it be any different for fluke? Or any fish for that matter? So back to my original question...

What is the benefit of a rec angler intentionally targeting fish, you know are your breeding stock, full well knowing that could have population implications? Especially if everyone is so successful at doing it day in and out? What is accomplished by boxing up 3 fish over 20" day in and out knowing that is not a sustainable practice? Or, is your primary gripe specifically about the commercial side of it and not the average Joe fisher? Because if it's the commercial side and their freedom to maintain their status quo out there while we get the stick, you and I aren't different in sharing that frustration. 

 

[hammer4reel]

1 hour ago, hunterbob1 said:

Dan, the recreational fishery ends before the spawn. The commercial guys can still throw their nets in October November

.

commercial guys are fishing for them during the spawn .

besides interrupting the spawn the boats are running through the eggs that have floated up after they are released .

the spawning fish are all packed together at that time making  it waster pickungs 

Edited April 19, 2022 by hammer4reel

[hunterbob1]

1 minute ago, hammer4reel said:

No shit Bob ,  that’s what I wrote .

like your going to tell me how the fishery works .

commercial guys are fishing for them during the spawn .

besides interrupting the spawn the boats are running through the eggs that have floated up after they are released .

the spawning fish are all packed together at that time making  it waster pickungs 

Dan you miss interpreted what I said I wasn't telling you I was agreeing with you I should have put a question mark is it true that they can do this in the fall I wasn't telling you I was asking you and I think it's unfair.

[hammer4reel]

6 hours ago, chenrossi said:

I'm not really sure any of your post lands back to answering my original question. This seems to be more of a personal thing for you (especially with the need to target anglers who don't have the gear, time, equipment to target larger fish like you do consistently) if you don't think the idea of it being a pissing match with anglers exists..you also need to look at the big picture; I bring that point up because that exists across all hunting and fishing nowadays. You can't say it doesn't, so the stab about  a guy not catching them, unneeded.. it seems I struck a nerve saying that....I do just fine fluke fishing for how I choose to fish and as mentioned, I don't agree with how tightly truncated the age brackets are stacked right on top of one another..you mentioned we are supposed to look at the "big picture", that's all well and good that this is a thing your passionate about, no one is knocking that. However, I'm a firm believer in don't raise your voice, change your argument if you want to be understood and have your argument heard. 

You bring up several other different species that people should have to go there for to get. What is lost in saying that though is most wildlife species all have restrictive harvest on females in the population (no hen harvest for turkeys in some states...no female pheasant harvest...limited hens waterfowl hunting, for example), or restrictive harvest management where males and females look the same to ensure a sustainable population..the ones they are trying to reduce the populations for have robust harvest practices and it is indiscriminate for males and females in the population (snow geese for example)... so why shouldn't it be any different for fluke? Or any fish for that matter? So back to my original question...

What is the benefit of a rec angler intentionally targeting fish, you know are your breeding stock, full well knowing that could have population implications? Especially if everyone is so successful at doing it day in and out? What is accomplished by boxing up 3 fish over 20" day in and out knowing that is not a sustainable practice? Or, is your primary gripe specifically about the commercial side of it and not the average Joe fisher? Because if it's the commercial side and their freedom to maintain their status quo out there while we get the stick, you and I aren't different in sharing that frustration. 

 

Fishery issue was about only targeting female stock .

allowing a large portion of the fishery to fish for smaller fish removes a great deal of pressure off the overall stocks .

but more than that doesn’t give the ridiculous mortality throw back held against us .

its bern argued for years already to allow guys to take a few smaller fish home instead of them throwing back ten shorts , getting charged for four (overfishing by 1 with nothing in the box ) 

now by making the slot to narrow (1 year age class fish ) when we are throwing larger fish back they will claim even higher mortality discards .

why should we throw anything back if they allow commercial guys to keep all those fish .

it’s a moot point .

 

 

the stab wasn’t against fisherman who didn’t have the means to get to larger fish .

I started off in a 14 foot tin boat doing everything I do now .

 

it was a party boat Captain and some of his friends pushed the agenda to put money in their pockets without regard to the entire fishery .

those guys are talking about running three short trips a day now , Because they THINK  it will be easy now .

‘They couldn’t put their fares on 18” fish while everyone around them was filling coolers . The slot won’t help them guys knowing how to fish know right where to go to catch those smaller fish quickly.

if the slot was 17-20” it would have been recieved better as guys wouldn’t all be crowding the small fish areas  

Edited April 19, 2022 by hammer4reel

[hammer4reel]

8 minutes ago, hunterbob1 said:

Dan you miss interpreted what I said I wasn't telling you I was agreeing with you I should have put a question mark is it true that they can do this in the fall I wasn't telling you I was asking you and I think it's unfair.

Yes it’s true They fish through the spawn , and create a pretty big disturbance 

[smittty]

3 hours ago, hammer4reel said:

They did it because a few guys who can’t catch a cold think they can  fill their boats with customers .

not many guys will fish more often to catch a pound and a half of fillets and spend 120 bucks or more to do it .

occasional anglers doing it once won’t care about the fee .

honestly other species are going to get targeted as most you talk about want to fill their freezers.

 

They are trying to say they did it for the fishery , that’s BS .

IF  they wanted to protect the fishery they would go Back to 16 1/2” minimum limit .

stop commercial fishing during the spawn and allocate that quota to another portion of the year .

 

I have pushed for a smaller size limit for a long time when we got dropped to five fish .

charts show that was the most productive time for recruitment. But what they just did if it holds is going to hurt tge fishery for recreational anglers more because we’re going to get crushed with throw back mortality on both sides of the slot .

 

you need to look at the WHOLE picture , not just a section of it .

last season we were supposed to get a big increase in quota , commercial guys got it .

we didn’t because they said we would over fish because of throwback mortality .

guess they have a giant crystal ball .

 

AND  as far as not many guys targeting big fluke , you couldn't be further  from the truth .

many guys are targeting big fish .

jigging world primary business is fluke fishing , for big fish 

a ton of bucktail companies , spoon companies in business because guys want to catch better than average fish .

 

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Dan  there was no increase in the commercial quota and I knew you know that the annual number has always stayed the same the commercial sector wasn’t reaching their quotas so they made bigger trip limit to get guysTo target them so you And the commercial guys don’t have the quote a chopped in half and that is what will exactly happen And you know it normally me and you see Eye to eye But just go back and listen to what you’re saying

[smittty]

2 minutes ago, smittty said:

Dan  there was no increase in the commercial quota and I knew you know that the annual number has always stayed the same the commercial sector wasn’t reaching their quotas so they made bigger trip limit to get guysTo target them so you And the commercial guys don’t have the quote a chopped in half and that is what will exactly happen And you know it normally me and you see Eye to eye But just go back and listen to what you’re saying

Let’s all be honest neither the recreational or commercial fishery has gotten any increases but we almost lost a lot and there are some commercial guys that are trying to bail us all out of a holeLet’s all be honest neither the recreational or commercial fishery has gotten any increases but we almost lost a lot and there are some commercial guys that are trying to bail us all out of a hole

Edited April 19, 2022 by smittty

[SPEARFISH]

2 hours ago, JHbowhunter said:

The RB is beat up daily by the same party boats. Would be interested to hear how Sea Tiger, Angler, Misty Morn et al feel about this and what they propose.  That bay does not seem to have the fluke life it once did 

Also beat up by hundreds of recreational boaters every day.  Those 17" will get picked through quick.

Angler is gone.  There's only a hand full of party boats left.

[HighEndHooker]

All these new refs ensure, is that there are going to be a lot of dead fluke getting culled when a bigger one gets in the boat

[JHbowhunter]

9 minutes ago, HighEndHooker said:

All these new refs ensure, is that there are going to be a lot of dead fluke getting culled when a bigger one gets in the boat

That’s probably nothing new though 

[hunterbob1]

When I catch a short it if it inhaled the bait, and it wasn't bleeding  instead of ripping the hook out or trying to use  a hook remover, I'd cut the line and tie on a new hook takes a minute, liked thinking I saved a lot of fish that way.

Edited April 19, 2022 by hunterbob1