Serious fluke question

[MGHunter66]

1 minute ago, smittty said:

Every year they get meet thanks to the state when they see we are falling behind what the do is up the weekly a daily limits to try to get guys to work on them. That’s what’s going on now it’s also happening in other states. The big boats can’t target 1.000 pounds of  2.00 fluke 80 miles offshore when the fuel is over 4.00

Gotcha, thanks

[hammer4reel]

2 minutes ago, MGHunter66 said:

So in the regs thread you posed 17 1/2- 19. So via this chart how drastically different is that as far as age class targeted. It doesn’t seem very different 

We catch a lot of fish Oceanside in the , 4,5,6,7 brackets and enough in the 8,9 brackets to Keep it interesting .

difference with current regs is everyone has to catch 66% of 3 year olds , and the remaining 6  years only allow 33%  of the catch .

 

[MGHunter66]

25 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

We catch a lot of fish Oceanside in the , 4,5,6,7 brackets and enough in the 8,9 brackets to Keep it interesting .

difference with current regs is everyone has to catch 66% of 3 year olds , and the remaining 6  years only allow 33%  of the catch .

 

So in the current regs you’ll take 2 fish from 2-4 yrs old and one fish older. So how vastly different is that in age target when most were catching their just barely 18” 3 fish limit. I’m talking on a broader spectrum of fisherman here who fished party boats or light recreational which makes up a large part of the population. They were consistently taking a single age class while the regs were 18” and up.  I know a lot of guys that don’t have their own boats like us or go with friends and this was the info I got when talking to them

Edited April 19, 2022 by MGHunter66

[hammer4reel]

11 minutes ago, MGHunter66 said:

So in the current regs you’ll take 2 fish from 2-4 yrs old and one fish older. So how vastly different is that in age target when most were catching their just barely 18” 3 fish limit. I’m talking on a broader spectrum of fisherman here who fished party boats or light recreational which makes up a large part of the population. They were consistently taking a single age class while the regs were 18” and up.  I know a lot of guys that don’t have their own boats like us or go with friends and this was the info I got when talking to them

No , you will be taking 2 fish that are 3 years old , and one older fish .

If regs were 3 fish over 17 1/2 . You could catch fish in every age class from 3-10 .

guys fishing skinny water could catch and keep (3) 17 1/2” fish while someone fishing Oceanside could have three 20”fish .

instead the guy fishing inshore would get a mortality discard of 40 percent all the extra fish he catches under 18” and the guy fishing Oceanside would get charged for throwing back 2 twenty inch fish .

mortality discards are at a ridiculous 40% of our catches .

 

once everyone targets that one year class of fish im betting guys will quickly be crying there aren’t any “slot” fish around .

going to be way too much pressure on that size fish .

 

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[JHbowhunter]

I still feel like these regs  are still threading the needle between commercial and recreational fisheries trying to share a resource. But the way our recreational regs have been last 5 years have only made it worse each year.  So 3 at 18” or over has been very very bad for NJ fishery not improving. NY says 4 at 19” or better how are they doing? CT is now 4 at 18.5” or bigger. RI is 6 at 19” and MA is still TBD. Delaware is 4 at 15.5” or better. 

[hammer4reel]

3 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

I still feel like these regs  are still threading the needle between commercial and recreational fisheries trying to share a resource. But the way our recreational regs have been last 5 years have only made it worse each year.  So 3 at 18” or over has been very very bad for NJ fishery not improving. NY says 4 at 19” or better how are they doing? CT is now 4 at 18.5” or bigger. RI is 6 at 19” and MA is still TBD. Delaware is 4 at 15.5” or better. 

Preferred regs going into meeting was (3) at 17 1/2” that helps whole state .

delaware bay was (3) at 17”
So for Barnegat bay and raritan bay to catch fish between 17 and 17 1/2” we gave up fishing for the majority of fish between 18-30” , (yet will still get charged with catching and releasing them )  

pretty much ruining the ocean fishery for targeting fluke where the majority of fluke are probably 19-22” 

 

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[JHbowhunter]

1 minute ago, hammer4reel said:

 

pretty much ruining the ocean fishery for targeting fluke where the majority of fluke are probably 19-22” 

 

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I think that is very high average length - if u polled all NJ ocean fisherman the average 2021  fish would probably be in the 16-17” range. Include party boats and private.  

[MGHunter66]

15 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

once everyone targets that one year class of fish im betting guys will quickly be crying there aren’t any “slot” fish around .

So at years end I have to start another Fluke Crying Thread😳Idk if the posters can take it

[MGHunter66]

4 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

I think that is very high average length - if u polled all NJ ocean fisherman the average 2021  fish would probably be in the 16-17” range. Include party boats and private.  

This is exactly what I’ve heard. I talk to many guys at the VFW, Moose Club, etc. and they all do charter trips and party boats. They threw back huge amounts of short fish and keepers were mainly just over 18”. This is a a large number of people as compared to individuals that have done better. Time will tell but I have faith in slot limits, every species that found itself put into a slot limit system has flourished. 

[chenrossi]

To play devils advocate, to those arguing (not saying anyone in particular here, just in general from friends I've talked to) it is "killing the ocean" fishery, making it less desirable to go offshore....what is the ultimate "benefit" to going offshore if in all reality, it seems (recreationally) going offshore following those bigger fish when they get to wrecks, tend to lean towards big females, they're targeting, no? Correct me if I'm wrong, that seems counterintuitive to the fishery overall. Yeah, everyone likes catching a big fish, but what's the point if you're catching and keeping, or releasing a fish with greater implied odds of mortality now that you caught and released it if you're trying to maintain a sustainable breeding population. As opposed to keeping a few standard fish to take home to eat? I also understand truncating the age classes with the slot makes you focus on a couple age brackets, and I don't necessarily agree with that either, but my philosophy has always been just been because they set rules, doesn't mean we have to abide by them. And I don't mean that in the sense we have to break them, but personally we can get to set our own boundaries within the confines of the law. I get it's kind of bs from the commercial side they seem to face no consequences, the rec guys get the wrong end of the stick; is that what it is about then? Because if not, in the grand scheme, all I see it as is a pissing contest for boat photos of big fluke that are probably breeders just to say one is holier than thou catching bigger fish than the next boat. Which if thats the case, are we not just our own worst enemies? 

[hammer4reel]

7 hours ago, JHbowhunter said:

I think that is very high average length - if u polled all NJ ocean fisherman the average 2021  fish would probably be in the 16-17” range. Include party boats and private.  

Jack as you know we fish a lot of tournaments .

most of the other guys we know fishing those tournaments have no problem catching limit after limit of quality fish .

it’s all on how your fishing .

it’s takes finding areas that hold bigger fish , and then knowing how to catch them .

you fished in your boat just about next to us a few times , we weren’t catching all those shorts you were catching .

just like shooting big deer , it takes more than just dragging a bait to consistently take bigger fish .

sure occasionally the person fishing an upside down spinning reel catches a doormat ( you have seen that ) .

sometimes an area gets loaded with a big school of smaller fish , we don’t keep fishing there we move , unless it’s a leisure day and we just want to fight a lot of fish ..

 

smaller fish are faster to grab a bait than large fish , so other things are done to try not to have those smaller fish biting ahead of larger ones .

 

no different than the same few party boat sharpies who always catch a limit of fish larger than everyone else on the boat  day after day .

They. aren’t fishing the same way even though it may appear they are .

 

.

 

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Edited April 19, 2022 by hammer4reel

[hammer4reel]

3 hours ago, chenrossi said:

To play devils advocate, to those arguing (not saying anyone in particular here, just in general from friends I've talked to) it is "killing the ocean" fishery, making it less desirable to go offshore....what is the ultimate "benefit" to going offshore if in all reality, it seems (recreationally) going offshore following those bigger fish when they get to wrecks, tend to lean towards big females, they're targeting, no? Correct me if I'm wrong, that seems counterintuitive to the fishery overall. Yeah, everyone likes catching a big fish, but what's the point if you're catching and keeping, or releasing a fish with greater implied odds of mortality now that you caught and released it if you're trying to maintain a sustainable breeding population. As opposed to keeping a few standard fish to take home to eat? I also understand truncating the age classes with the slot makes you focus on a couple age brackets, and I don't necessarily agree with that either, but my philosophy has always been just been because they set rules, doesn't mean we have to abide by them. And I don't mean that in the sense we have to break them, but personally we can get to set our own boundaries within the confines of the law. I get it's kind of bs from the commercial side they seem to face no consequences, the rec guys get the wrong end of the stick; is that what it is about then? Because if not, in the grand scheme, all I see it as is a pissing contest for boat photos of big fluke that are probably breeders just to say one is holier than thou catching bigger fish than the next boat. Which if thats the case, are we not just our own worst enemies? 

Costs a lot of time and gas . As well as gear to target bigger fish .

‘The fight from a larger fluke isn’t anything like that of smaller fish .

it takes more skill to boat larger fish consistently .

many people hook bigger fish , way less see them in the boat .

most are lost on the way there .

and since 90 percent of the guys need to catch something , and think going to smaller fish will help them out fish in their box . Those than can catch larger fish are supposed to not ? 

when I hear guys state hear guys in a pissing contest just to show photos of big fish . Just says there’s a guy who doesn’t catch them .

 

This is a shared fishery , commercial gets 60 percent , us 40 percent .

so why are we getting limited to the year of age class fish that they can readily take ? 

Fluke are a NJ treasure , why do we have to share them with the world. , you don’t see Idaho giving everyone their treasure of elk.

The Dakota giving up their pheasants etc .

you want an elk , pheasants you go there .

want a fluke you should have to catch it here .

 

with a whole different bunch of year classes available , we should be able to fish for all of it .

it allows more distributions through many different years naturally based on a fisherman’s own experience .

.

once good fisherman target only smaller fish , you will quickly see them vanish .

the only reason their are so many around is we have been all throwing them back . I don’t believe there is 40 percent mortality releasing them especially if caught on larger hooks .

 

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Edited April 19, 2022 by hammer4reel

[JHbowhunter]

3 hours ago, hammer4reel said:

Jack as you know we fish a lot of tournaments .

most of the other guys we know fishing those tournaments have no problem catching limit after limit of quality fish .

it’s all on how your fishing .

it’s takes finding areas that hold bigger fish , and then knowing how to catch them .

you fished in your boat just about next to us a few times , we weren’t catching all those shorts you were catching .

just like shooting big deer , it takes more than just dragging a bait to consistently take bigger fish .

sure occasionally the person fishing an upside down spinning reel catches a doormat ( you have seen that ) .

sometimes an area gets loaded with a big school of smaller fish , we don’t keep fishing there we move , unless it’s a leisure day and we just want to fight a lot of fish ..

 

smaller fish are faster to grab a bait than large fish , so other things are done to try not to have those smaller fish biting ahead of larger ones .

 

no different than the same few party boat sharpies who always catch a limit of fish larger than everyone else on the boat  day after day .

They. aren’t fishing the same way even though it may appear they are .

 

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I know how u like to fish and consistently target the big females. But that is far from the majority. Many private owners are content to go to the more common grounds or follow the party boats and hope for long drifts with good action.  Many good fluke fisherman are strictly party boats. These are the majority fishermen targeting the majority fish. I still think majority are in that 16-17” range. A party boat “pro” may go out and weed through several dozen of those majority fish to get their 3 man limit when it was 3 at 18” or over. Maybe even win the pool once in a while with a 7# - 11# fish.  You are a big fluke specialist and these regs are punishing you a lot more than the average joe. That’s my only point. I do not like these regs anymore than you do but I can understand why they did it. 

[hammer4reel]

1 hour ago, JHbowhunter said:

I know how u like to fish and consistently target the big females. But that is far from the majority. Many private owners are content to go to the more common grounds or follow the party boats and hope for long drifts with good action.  Many good fluke fisherman are strictly party boats. These are the majority fishermen targeting the majority fish. I still think majority are in that 16-17” range. A party boat “pro” may go out and weed through several dozen of those majority fish to get their 3 man limit when it was 3 at 18” or over. Maybe even win the pool once in a while with a 7# - 11# fish.  You are a big fluke specialist and these regs are punishing you a lot more than the average joe. That’s my only point. I do not like these regs anymore than you do but I can understand why they did it. 

They did it because a few guys who can’t catch a cold think they can  fill their boats with customers .

not many guys will fish more often to catch a pound and a half of fillets and spend 120 bucks or more to do it .

occasional anglers doing it once won’t care about the fee .

honestly other species are going to get targeted as most you talk about want to fill their freezers.

 

They are trying to say they did it for the fishery , that’s BS .

IF  they wanted to protect the fishery they would go Back to 16 1/2” minimum limit .

stop commercial fishing during the spawn and allocate that quota to another portion of the year .

 

I have pushed for a smaller size limit for a long time when we got dropped to five fish .

charts show that was the most productive time for recruitment. But what they just did if it holds is going to hurt tge fishery for recreational anglers more because we’re going to get crushed with throw back mortality on both sides of the slot .

 

you need to look at the WHOLE picture , not just a section of it .

last season we were supposed to get a big increase in quota , commercial guys got it .

we didn’t because they said we would over fish because of throwback mortality .

guess they have a giant crystal ball .

 

AND  as far as not many guys targeting big fluke , you couldn't be further  from the truth .

many guys are targeting big fish .

jigging world primary business is fluke fishing , for big fish 

a ton of bucktail companies , spoon companies in business because guys want to catch better than average fish .

 

.

 

 

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Edited April 19, 2022 by hammer4reel

[JHbowhunter]

5 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

They did it because a few guys who can’t catch a cold think they can  fill their boats with customers .

not many guys will fish more often to catch a pound and a half of fillets and spend 120 bucks or more to do it .

occasional anglers doing it once won’t care about the fee .

honestly other species are going to get targeted as most you talk about want to fill their freezers.

 

They are trying to say they did it for the fishery , that’s BS .

IF  they wanted to protect the fishery they would go Back to 16 1/2” minimum limit .

stop commercial fishing during the spawn and allocate that quota to another portion of the year .

 

I have pushed for a smaller size limit for a long time when we got dropped to five fish .

charts show that was the most productive time for recruitment. But what they just did if it holds is going to hurt tge fishery for recreational anglers more because we’re going to get crushed with throw back mortality on both sides of the slot .

 

you need to look at the WHOLE picture , not just a section of it .

last season we were supposed to get a big increase in quota , commercial guys got it .

we didn’t because they said we would over fish because of throwback mortality .

guess they have a giant crystal ball .

 

 

.

 

I agree with all your commercial points. My only point is - clearly these regs are targeting and punishing your style of recreational fluking. The big fluke hunters. It may be helping the average joe but will have to see how quickly the slot gets drained and that entire age class is gone.  I feel slot limits have helped NJ Stripers but time will tell with fluke. Looking at that age class vs size chart - this seems a bit risky, but I wonder how three fish 17” or over is any better other than allowing the trophy fluke hunter to keep doing what they do - target big females for their boat limit.

Two flexible buck tags I say - statewide! Lol