EXCELLANT VIDEO-- Why Hunters Are Seeing Fewer Wild Turkeys + What To Do About It!

[mazzgolf]

One thing I would like to see a report on - trapping data. I want to see (a) the number of trappers (actually, I would like to see the number of trapping days) over the past 10 years and (b) if possible, the harvest numbers of trappers over the past 10 years.

Does NJ publish numbers like that?

I'm sure we all know trapping is declining - I'm curious how bad the decline is and if there is a pattern between that and turkey numbers.

 

[nickmarch]

From memory back in the 80's trappers would get 20, 30, 40,000 raccoons a year.  Then a few years after banning leg hold traps the number of trappers and trapped animals dropped significantly.  Now I'm guessing about 3,000 raccoons a year.  

[Bucndoe]

25 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

One thing I would like to see a report on - trapping data. I want to see (a) the number of trappers (actually, I would like to see the number of trapping days) over the past 10 years and (b) if possible, the harvest numbers of trappers over the past 10 years.

Does NJ publish numbers like that?

I'm sure we all know trapping is declining - I'm curious how bad the decline is and if there is a pattern between that and turkey numbers.

 

Yes, that is posted after the annual trappers survey is tallied. It's in the Furbearer Newsletter

[Bonefreak]

8 hours ago, Lunatic said:

I agree one poult is concerning but why would you say she barely replaces herself? 

If she dies ....her 1 poult replaces her

if the poult is a male....the male has no potential of adding to the population in terms of future broods of poults....which is very problematic and basically means her having 1 male poult doesn’t even replace herself in terms of her potential to have future broods

If mortality occurs to the poult that replaces her....either as it is a poult or a young turkey....and if the poult is a hen....before it is able to have a brood of it own....population decline results 

[Bonefreak]

8 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

One thing I would like to see a report on - trapping data. I want to see (a) the number of trappers (actually, I would like to see the number of trapping days) over the past 10 years and (b) if possible, the harvest numbers of trappers over the past 10 years.

Does NJ publish numbers like that?

I'm sure we all know trapping is declining - I'm curious how bad the decline is and if there is a pattern between that and turkey numbers.

 

I would bet that the graph would look a lot like Dr Woods chart, from his study I think in Missouri in the video, that presented a downward trend between trapping harvests and turkey harvests. 
 

it would definitely be interesting to see NJs data on this matter...but I won’t hold my breath...especially seeing how our biologists documented a steady population of 23,000 even as brood size dropped. Last I heard scientists should have honor in data they present...

I don’t think NJ will ever be able to increase the trapping effort significantly to make a difference....no one has much time to dedicate to it....any spare time we are sitting in the treestand.  Definitely worthwhile for some individuals to try and make a difference for pockets of turkey populations, but as a whole state...we need something creative and more efficient and effective at predator management ....something our turkey biologists should be able to put into motion

[Fred Flintstone]

11 hours ago, nickmarch said:

The info in the video could be the problem elsewhere but not in NJ.

In NJ when baiting for deer became legal FW also changed the beginning dates of turkey season.  Turkey season started later.  Both were 98 or 99?  

It takes a mean brood size of 4 poult to maintain the turkey population.  The mean brood size was consistently above 4 prior to baiting and turkey season date changes.  It's only hit 4 maybe 2 or 3 times since then. (20+ years)

Predator numbers skyrocketed after baiting was allowed.  They eat like pigs fall thru January then little to no bait.  Shortly after its turkey time!  

The State's turkey population numbers are total BS!  Their study said a mean brood size of 4 is needed to maintain numbers.  Their brood size number are mostly 2.5 to 3 for the past 20 years and their estimated population has been the same 22,000 to 23,000 for the past 20 years.  

Baiting is increasing predator numbers.

Once again Nick you make good sense and bring up that Baiting issue.

 And since, I  have been Turkey Hunting in New Jersey since 1994- the Turkey Population  is always right around 22,000. No change ever??!

[Lunatic]

1 hour ago, Bonefreak said:

If she dies ....her 1 poult replaces her

if the poult is a male....the male has no potential of adding to the population in terms of future broods of poults....which is very problematic and basically means her having 1 male poult doesn’t even replace herself in terms of her potential to have future broods

If mortality occurs to the poult that replaces her....either as it is a poult or a young turkey....and if the poult is a hen....before it is able to have a brood of it own....population decline results 

OK, you statement made assumption she lives one single season. I am thinking she lives many years and than she will produce as many poults.  

[nickmarch]

The poult counts are done May thru September.  Many are taken by predators after that as are adults. 

The trapping numbers are attached.

Edited June 13, 2021 by nickmarch

[nickmarch]

What people don't see, Taylor added, is what he calls the "hidden danger" to setting out corn - its potential toxic effect on turkeys and other bird species.

"There's a reason why certain grades of corn are labeled 'deer corn,'" Taylor explained. "The [U.S. Department of Agriculture] won't permit it to be fed to cattle because its aflatoxin level is so high."

Aflatoxin is a toxic chemical given off by a species of mold commonly found on corn. At low levels, it can affect turkeys' ability to lay eggs. At higher levels, it can affect turkeys' health.

Taylor, a member of the National Wild Turkey Federation's technical committee, said the NWTF commissioned a study to look at aflatoxin levels in corn. "Biologists from one of the southern states went out and took samples from people's feeders and bait piles. Some of the samples had aflatoxin levels that were through the roof."

He has no research to prove it, but Taylor suspects that the enormous quantities of aflatoxin-laced corn being fed to West Virginia deer are affecting turkeys' ability to reproduce.

[Bonefreak]

2 minutes ago, nickmarch said:

What people don't see, Taylor added, is what he calls the "hidden danger" to setting out corn - its potential toxic effect on turkeys and other bird species.

"There's a reason why certain grades of corn are labeled 'deer corn,'" Taylor explained. "The [U.S. Department of Agriculture] won't permit it to be fed to cattle because its aflatoxin level is so high."

Aflatoxin is a toxic chemical given off by a species of mold commonly found on corn. At low levels, it can affect turkeys' ability to lay eggs. At higher levels, it can affect turkeys' health.

Taylor, a member of the National Wild Turkey Federation's technical committee, said the NWTF commissioned a study to look at aflatoxin levels in corn. "Biologists from one of the southern states went out and took samples from people's feeders and bait piles. Some of the samples had aflatoxin levels that were through the roof."

He has no research to prove it, but Taylor suspects that the enormous quantities of aflatoxin-laced corn being fed to West Virginia deer are affecting turkeys' ability to reproduce.

Yikes!  Who is this Taylor individual and does he have any reading material to delve into?

[nickmarch]

1 hour ago, Bonefreak said:

Yikes!  Who is this Taylor individual and does he have any reading material to delve into?

He has written some bulletins for the NWTF.  

Taylor was employed by the wildlife section of the W Virginia DNR for 35 years and retired as the Chief of the Wildlife Section of DNR. 

He also served on the National Wild Turkey Federation's technical committee.

Quote from another article...

In Virginia, where the season opens sooner, the problem is worse."Other potential areas of study are the effects of feeding corn to turkeys, and the effect coyotes might be having on turkey populations.

Taylor said the jury is still out on the corn question, but the coyote question has pretty much been answered.

"We want to know if corn is causing disease, if it's increasing predation, and if it's changing turkeys' feeding habits," he explained.

"As for the coyotes, studies done in South Carolina and here in West Virginia show that coyotes seldom eat turkeys or turkey eggs. They wreak havoc on deer and fawns, but not turkeys.

"Taylor said finding the answers to so many questions will take time."We don't have a definitive timeline to finish this study," he said. "The questions are difficult, and the answers won't be easy to find."

. 

 

[hemlock]

Very  informative thread nice!

[gobblergetter]

10 hours ago, Bonefreak said:

I would bet that the graph would look a lot like Dr Woods chart, from his study I think in Missouri in the video, that presented a downward trend between trapping harvests and turkey harvests. 
 

it would definitely be interesting to see NJs data on this matter...but I won’t hold my breath...especially seeing how our biologists documented a steady population of 23,000 even as brood size dropped. Last I heard scientists should have honor in data they present...

I don’t think NJ will ever be able to increase the trapping effort significantly to make a difference....no one has much time to dedicate to it....any spare time we are sitting in the treestand.  Definitely worthwhile for some individuals to try and make a difference for pockets of turkey populations, but as a whole state...we need something creative and more efficient and effective at predator management ....something our turkey biologists should be able to put into motion

You can still sit in your stand and wait for a deer to walk by. And help turkeys. All you have to do is say Yes when someone asks to trap your land. Let an experienced trapper do the work for you.

The number one reason I get denied trapping rights is from hunters not wanting me to interfere with their hunting.

You guys do,it to,yourselves.

Allow trapping on your land.

Don't complain to landowners for allowing trappers on the property 

I get more hassles from hunters then animal rights fanatics. As a matter of fact, I've never been hassled by animal lovers. BUT  I've lost land because of hunters.

[mazzgolf]

42 minutes ago, gobblergetter said:

I get more hassles from hunters then animal rights fanatics. As a matter of fact, I've never been hassled by animal lovers. BUT  I've lost land because of hunters.

sad. 

[Shakyjake]

20 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

One thing I would like to see a report on - trapping data. I want to see (a) the number of trappers (actually, I would like to see the number of trapping days) over the past 10 years and (b) if possible, the harvest numbers of trappers over the past 10 years.

Does NJ publish numbers like that?

I'm sure we all know trapping is declining - I'm curious how bad the decline is and if there is a pattern between that and turkey numbers.

 

Fish and Game posts the exact data, and more, that you’re speaking of. It’s in every edition of the furbearer news letter.