EXCELLANT VIDEO-- Why Hunters Are Seeing Fewer Wild Turkeys + What To Do About It!

[Merkel]

22 hours ago, nickmarch said:

From memory back in the 80's trappers would get 20, 30, 40,000 raccoons a year.  Then a few years after banning leg hold traps the number of trappers and trapped animals dropped significantly.  Now I'm guessing about 3,000 raccoons a year.  

I think you also need to factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. It was a large market for fur.

[_X7]

Baiting is problematic in many ways. Add this one to the list.

[Fred Flintstone]

   I don't  know what  New Jersey Fish, Game, + Wildlife is doing in recent years to improve upland Game + Turkey hunting on the WMAs

  Specifically  the Public Land in Northren New Jersey.

    Remember  the " old" Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area in Passaic  County?

  It is listed in the 1992  Centennial Edition-- Guide To New Jersey's  Wildlife Management  Areas.

  There " used" to be alot of Wild Turkeys  on that  2,277 Acre Tract that connects  right to 22,000 Acre+ Sterling Forest State Park in New York.

  Page 120 States-- Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area-- Wild Turkey-- Good Turkey Habitat is Found on the tract and opportunitys  exist for Spring Turkey Hunting.

   Really?-- No more. I did not hear any Gobblers this past Spring there.

   And here's the kicker- Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area no longer exists...

  It is now part of Ironworks  State Park.  I guess no more money or manpower for habitat improvement was going to be slated for this area.

   There are plenty of Black Bears on the old Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area though. 

    About 3 Springs back or so, I  was not too far in from the Green Turtle Pond and and working my Box Call. A Big Black Bear strode Forward into view on a low Ridge about 70 yards away from me and Scanned my position. 

  I slowly packed up and left- but if that Black Bear came on down, I  was prepared  to put the Bead on his nose . And,I  shoot Nickel plated #4s which is harder then copper. 3 in the Gun  and 2 extras in a front pocket.

  He stayed up there. Now,I  bring this up because, I  think Black Bears are a big part of the Wild Turkey Decline on New Jersey's Public Lands.

  I called up a Black Bear in Ringwood  State Park as well some Springs back. Same thing- no Wild Turkeys this year and Black Bears present .

   Ramapo State Park-- same deal- Black Bears + Coyotes.

   Waywayanda State Park used to have a robust population  of Wild Turkeys. Now- a Black Bear Paradise.  That is a good Biking destination all the way to Waywayanda Lake. 

  A Big old Boar came out of a Swampand crossed in front of me. One of the biggest Black Bears that ,I  have seen. Huge Head swinging side to side.

    Do Black Bears Predate recently  hatched Turkey Poults that they can smell  and make a wholesale meal out of any 14 egg Turkey Nests they find?

  I think so...

  Solution-- Open up Black Bear Hunting.

 

[Bonefreak]

13 minutes ago, Fred Flintstone said:

   I don't  know what  New Jersey Fish, Game, + Wildlife is doing in recent years to improve upland Game + Turkey hunting on the WMAs

  Specifically  the Public Land in Northren New Jersey.

    Remember  the " old" Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area in Passaic  County?

  It is listed in the 1992  Centennial Edition-- Guide To New Jersey's  Wildlife Management  Areas.

  There " used" to be alot of Wild Turkeys  on that  2,277 Acre Tract that connects  right to 22,000 Acre+ Sterling Forest State Park in New York.

  Page 120 States-- Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area-- Wild Turkey-- Good Turkey Habitat is Found on the tract and opportunitys  exist for Spring Turkey Hunting.

   Really?-- No more. I did not hear any Gobblers this past Spring there.

   And here's the kicker- Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area no longer exists...

  It is now part of Ironworks  State Park.  I guess no more money or manpower for habitat improvement was going to be slated for this area.

   There are plenty of Black Bears on the old Wanaque Wildlife Management  Area though. 

    About 3 Springs back or so, I  was not too far in from the Green Turtle Pond and and working my Box Call. A Big Black Bear strode Forward into view on a low Ridge about 70 yards away from me and Scanned my position. 

  I slowly packed up and left- but if that Black Bear came on down, I  was prepared  to put the Bead on his nose . And,I  shoot Nickel plated #4s which is harder then copper. 3 in the Gun  and 2 extras in a front pocket.

  He stayed up there. Now,I  bring this up because, I  think Black Bears are a big part of the Wild Turkey Decline on New Jersey's Public Lands.

  I called up a Black Bear in Ringwood  State Park as well some Springs back. Same thing- no Wild Turkeys this year and Black Bears present .

   Ramapo State Park-- same deal- Black Bears + Coyotes.

   Waywayanda State Park used to have a robust population  of Wild Turkeys. Now- a Black Bear Paradise.  That is a good Biking destination all the way to Waywayanda Lake. 

  A Big old Boar came out of a Swampand crossed in front of me. One of the biggest Black Bears that ,I  have seen. Huge Head swinging side to side.

    Do Black Bears Predate recently  hatched Turkey Poults that they can smell  and make a wholesale meal out of any 14 egg Turkey Nests they find?

  I think so...

  Solution-- Open up Black Bear Hunting.

 

Probably a chart w data showing bear population increase correlated to turkey population decrease in North Jersey....but NJ turkey biologists rely on the 23,000 turkey # figure for past 20 yrs of so even as they say there’s an average brood decline over same amount of time. 
 

as for open season on bear hunting...u won’t see that maybe until there’s a Republican governor...& that’s a long ways away...maybe even never!

Edited June 14, 2021 by Bonefreak

[Shakyjake]

We need 2 things to happen. 
1) more guys need to trap and not simply complain that the trappers don’t do enough. 
2) the new turkey biologist needs to limit the kill to (2) birds statewide. 
 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Shakyjake

[nickmarch]

The numbers show a link between baiting deer and a lower poult count.

Chickens lay smaller and significantly less eggs when they eat corn that has Aflatoxin so it more than likely does the same for turkeys.  

Baiting surely increases raccoon populations.  Coyote prey on raccoons so the increased raccoon population also increases the coyote population.  

 

[Bonefreak]

1 hour ago, Shakyjake said:

We need 2 things to happen. 
1) more guys need to trap and not simply complain that the trappers don’t do enough. 
2) the new turkey biologist needs to limit the kill to (2) birds statewide. 
 

I agree!

but realistically I don’t think trappers #s are guna increase significantly enough to make a difference...guys barely have time to hunt yet they have time to put bait down.  My boy n I plan on getting my trapping license n doing our part... but as a whole, it would make more sense to tap into the already dedicated ranks of trappers and offer them more access to the deer hunters private properties like GG stated. 

[Shakyjake]

1 hour ago, Bonefreak said:

I agree!

but realistically I don’t think trappers #s are guna increase significantly enough to make a difference...guys barely have time to hunt yet they have time to put bait down.  My boy n I plan on getting my trapping license n doing our part... but as a whole, it would make more sense to tap into the already dedicated ranks of trappers and offer them more access to the deer hunters private properties like GG stated. 

First things first, they need to expand the trapping season into the spring and predator hunting should be year ‘round. 

[Bonefreak]

8 minutes ago, Shakyjake said:

First things first, they need to expand the trapping season into the spring and predator hunting should be year ‘round. 

Absolutely!

just like Texas does....but this ain’t Texas!  

[nickmarch]

1 hour ago, Bonefreak said:

I agree!

but realistically I don’t think trappers #s are guna increase significantly enough to make a difference...guys barely have time to hunt yet they have time to put bait down.  My boy n I plan on getting my trapping license n doing our part... but as a whole, it would make more sense to tap into the already dedicated ranks of trappers and offer them more access to the deer hunters private properties like GG stated. 

The hunters that I know all hunt public ground.  Many drive an hour plus to where they hunt.  Not a chance they are going to check traps every 24 hours.  

I also imagine trapping has changed since baiting started.  I've seen numerous cam pics here with a slew of raccoons on cam at bait.  They arent out searching for food they go right to a bait pile.  I can't imagine a hunter trapping at their bait pile and checking the traps daily.  

Trappers went from getting 20 to 40 thousand raccoons yearly to 3,000 now with bait all over the place.  Without the easy access to food the population will decline.  

[nickmarch]

Corn has very little calcium or protein.  If they are stuffing themself daily with corn especially corn with Aflatoxin they aren't getting the protein, vitamins, minerals and fat that they need.  

Edited June 14, 2021 by nickmarch

[Lunatic]

3 hours ago, nickmarch said:

The numbers show a link between baiting deer and a lower poult count.

Chickens lay smaller and significantly less eggs when they eat corn that has Aflatoxin so it more than likely does the same for turkeys.  

Baiting surely increases raccoon populations.  Coyote prey on raccoons so the increased raccoon population also increases the coyote population.  

 

In a long run not much good comes to wild animals from baiting.

[Fred Flintstone]

41 minutes ago, nickmarch said:

The hunters that I know all hunt public ground.  Many drive an hour plus to where they hunt.  Not a chance they are going to check traps every 24 hours.  

I also imagine trapping has changed since baiting started.  I've seen numerous cam pics here with a slew of raccoons on cam at bait.  They arent out searching for food they go right to a bait pile.  I can't imagine a hunter trapping at their bait pile and checking the traps daily.  

Trappers went from getting 20 to 40 thousand raccoons yearly to 3,000 now with bait all over the place.  Without the easy access to food the population will decline.  

Obviously  then there is a correlation  between some Types of Corn with high Toxicity  levels for Birds- (Wild Turkeys) and Night Predators  such as Racoons  going to a large Corn Bait Pile and Gorging themselves and then that Corn Pile disappears  shortly before the start of the Spring Turkey Season and since the Raccoons  are Fat + Healthy and there is a huge Food Source for them- obviously  more Predators  will be born.

     One of their main food sources then become Turkey Eggs since the Corn Piles are gone.

   Being from NY and not much of a Deer Hunter-- I had no idea that Baiting for Deer was Legal in New Jersey until last year. 

   But if further research reveals that practice of laying out Corn Piles for Deer may also be partly responsible  for lower Wild Turkey Populations  in New Jersey- then Wildlife Biologists  really need to study and reflect more on this.

  It is almost a case of-- " Stealing from Peter To Pay Paul".

[nickmarch]

43 minutes ago, Fred Flintstone said:

One of their main food sources then become Turkey Eggs since the Corn Piles are gone.

To make things worse if the Aflatoxin has affected the hens the hens will lay less eggs with less hatchability.   

More predators and less egg production and hatching. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by nickmarch

[njdoxie]

if trapping is the answer, then it's a lost cause, there is no way enough trapping can be done statewide to have any affect on a large scale, 99% of guys don’t have time or interest.


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Edited June 14, 2021 by njdoxie