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EXCELLANT VIDEO-- Why Hunters Are Seeing Fewer Wild Turkeys + What To Do About It!


Fred Flintstone

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Great informational video THANKS FOR SHARING

HONOR THE FALLEN
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Over the years the US has sent many of its fine young men & women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return, is enough to bury those that did not return. COLIN POWELL

 

 

 

 

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Wow!!

Dr Grant Woods always does a great job. 
 

turkey decline is obviously very complex but he mentions things that can be done to help curb the decline....like habitat improvements and not creating prey food plots upwind of stream corridors that predators easily scent up nests n poults....& predator management....specifically state wildlife agencies should allow either year round trapping or trapping thru spring nesting season....wonder if NJ Turkey biologists will get their head out of their asses and take appropriate actions!!!

I also think we been creating a generation of Franken-critter Super nest raiders after all the years of legal baiting for deer. ....there is a pile of corn every quarter mile of woods & coons, opossum, skunks etc are feeding at corn piles....becoming physically fit and not having to put themselves into in harms to travel for food. 
 

excellent video!

 Thanks for sharing Fred!!

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Although....I don’t think our habitat in NJ has changed all they much over the past 10 yrs....except some development....it’s not like we have giant CRP fields and been making stream corridor habitat conducive to predators like Dr Woods said out in Midwest etc. 

I do think predators are up and trapper #s are down in NJ

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The info in the video could be the problem elsewhere but not in NJ.

In NJ when baiting for deer became legal FW also changed the beginning dates of turkey season.  Turkey season started later.  Both were 98 or 99?  

It takes a mean brood size of 4 poult to maintain the turkey population.  The mean brood size was consistently above 4 prior to baiting and turkey season date changes.  It's only hit 4 maybe 2 or 3 times since then. (20+ years)

Predator numbers skyrocketed after baiting was allowed.  They eat like pigs fall thru January then little to no bait.  Shortly after its turkey time!  

The State's turkey population numbers are total BS!  Their study said a mean brood size of 4 is needed to maintain numbers.  Their brood size number are mostly 2.5 to 3 for the past 20 years and their estimated population has been the same 22,000 to 23,000 for the past 20 years.  

Baiting is increasing predator numbers.

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5 minutes ago, nickmarch said:

The info in the video could be the problem elsewhere but not in NJ.

In NJ when baiting for deer became legal FW also changed the beginning dates of turkey season.  Turkey season started later.  Both were 98 or 99?  

It takes a mean brood size of 4 poult to maintain the turkey population.  The mean brood size was consistently above 4 prior to baiting and turkey season date changes.  It's only hit 4 maybe 2 or 3 times since then. (20+ years)

Predator numbers skyrocketed after baiting was allowed.  They eat like pigs fall thru January then little to no bait.  Shortly after its turkey time!  

The State's turkey population numbers are total BS!  Their study said a mean brood size of 4 is needed to maintain numbers.  Their brood size number are mostly 2.5 to 3 for the past 20 years and their estimated population has been the same 22,000 to 23,000 for the past 20 years.  

Baiting is increasing predator numbers.

Good point bout the corn piles....they are everywhere august thru February...then premium health condition nest raiders only have to make it a short time til it’s turkey eggs Benedict time!!

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4 minutes ago, Bonefreak said:

Good point bout the corn piles....they are everywhere august thru February...then premium health condition nest raiders only have to make it a short time til it’s turkey eggs Benedict time!!

Look at the numbers.  98-99 baiting was made legal.   Turkeys had a boom year in 1999 with a mean brood of 6 and then the brood size tanked and has stayed low for 20 years.

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/trkhrvpo.htm

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4 minutes ago, nickmarch said:

Look at the numbers.  98-99 baiting was made legal.   Turkeys had a boom year in 1999 with a mean brood of 6 and then the brood size tanked and has stayed low for 20 years.

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/trkhrvpo.htm

Wow!

very interesting!

even more interesting is how the population estimate miraculously  stayed around 23,000!  Appears to be some skewed data somewhere...maybe the skew is related to the need for permit sales??

I have been pro bait ban ... especially if it brings turkeys back. 

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49 minutes ago, Bonefreak said:

Wow!

very interesting!

even more interesting is how the population estimate miraculously  stayed around 23,000!  Appears to be some skewed data somewhere...maybe the skew is related to the need for permit sales??

I have been pro bait ban ... especially if it brings turkeys back. 

I noticed the same thing; essentially 23,000 each thereafter 

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30 minutes ago, Merkel said:

I noticed the same thing; essentially 23,000 each thereafter 

Something is fishy bout that data. I’m no trained biologist...but any reasonable person would expect to some fluctuations after those brood measurements!

we should really demand some answers from turkey biologists we are paying and trusting with our resource!  I haven’t heard of any turkey studies being done here in NJ...other states are at least looking into things. 

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Interesting video. Funny thing - I was just out all morning today and I think I saw more turkey today than I did all this past turkey season :) That might be an overstatement but... probably not by much.

The past few years, I've made it a point to spend a few days in the month after spring turkey season to go to public lands in South Jersey where I haven't been before and scout for new spots that look good for turkey (and do a little groundhog hunting while I'm at it). The first spot I went to this morning, as soon as I pulled up in my truck, I look across a field and there I see 4 big Toms and 4 hens - the Toms were still strutting and getting nothing to show for it :) . (so, I found a good spot for next year! With 4 big Toms still in the area, I suspect very little hunting pressure here.)

Anyway, I then went to a few other spots, and in a couple (not all, but a couple of them) I saw at least one hen. Not to mention the hens I was seeing while driving on the road (saw at least 2 that I can remember). Finally, on my way home I went to a spot I have been before to do some groundhog hunting, and I bumped a hen and her one poult (both flew up into a tree).

So - the good news is (albeit just my own personal observations) here in the south, almost everywhere I go, I see birds. I wish I was so lucky during the season!!!! Doesn't mean their numbers are up or even steady, but I do see them in many different parts of the south (and I ventured out a ways today - drove almost an hour away from my usual hunting locations).

The bad news - of all the hens I saw, I only saw one poult today. I was surprised to find that first flock of 8 birds - 4 hens in the flock - and I didn't see a single poult. Now, they were far away (had to use my binos to see them - they were over 300 yards away) so maybe I missed them, but I don't think so.

I dunno - I'll be curious to see what the harvest numbers are for this year.

 

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2 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

Interesting video. Funny thing - I was just out all morning today and I think I saw more turkey today than I did all this past turkey season :) That might be an overstatement but... probably not by much.

The past few years, I've made it a point to spend a few days in the month after spring turkey season to go to public lands in South Jersey where I haven't been before and scout for new spots that look good for turkey (and do a little groundhog hunting while I'm at it). The first spot I went to this morning, as soon as I pulled up in my truck, I look across a field and there I see 4 big Toms and 4 hens - the Toms were still strutting and getting nothing to show for it :) . (so, I found a good spot for next year! With 4 big Toms still in the area, I suspect very little hunting pressure here.)

Anyway, I then went to a few other spots, and in a couple (not all, but a couple of them) I saw at least one hen. Not to mention the hens I was seeing while driving on the road (saw at least 2 that I can remember). Finally, on my way home I went to a spot I have been before to do some groundhog hunting, and I bumped a hen and her one poult (both flew up into a tree).

So - the good news is (albeit just my own personal observations) here in the south, almost everywhere I go, I see birds. I wish I was so lucky during the season!!!! Doesn't mean their numbers are up or even steady, but I do see them in many different parts of the south (and I ventured out a ways today - drove almost an hour away from my usual hunting locations).

The bad news - of all the hens I saw, I only saw one poult today. I was surprised to find that first flock of 8 birds - 4 hens in the flock - and I didn't see a single poult. Now, they were far away (had to use my binos to see them - they were over 300 yards away) so maybe I missed them, but I don't think so.

I dunno - I'll be curious to see what the harvest numbers are for this year.

 

Cool observations!

but the lone hen w 1 poult is very concerning....she is barely replacing herself in the ecosystem....like Dr Chamberlains study in Georgia in Fred’s other post....hens are averaging 1.5 poults in the SE....we know we can’t have a .5 of a poult...hens are barely replacing themselves....could be a complexity of issues...& I wouldn’t rule out that West Nile study East Stroudsburg was doing...or this Mosquito Authority Crap they been spraying the past few years...saw what DDT did yrs ago...what the hell they spraying anyway...they say it’s like nail polish that coats and seals the ground!  Wtf!!

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18 minutes ago, Bonefreak said:

Cool observations!

but the lone hen w 1 poult is very concerning....she is barely replacing herself in the ecosystem....like Dr Chamberlains study in Georgia in Fred’s other post....hens are averaging 1.5 poults in the SE....we know we can’t have a .5 of a poult...hens are barely replacing themselves....could be a complexity of issues...& I wouldn’t rule out that West Nile study East Stroudsburg was doing...or this Mosquito Authority Crap they been spraying the past few years...saw what DDT did yrs ago...what the hell they spraying anyway...they say it’s like nail polish that coats and seals the ground!  Wtf!!

I agree one poult is concerning but why would you say she barely replaces herself? 

Edited by Lunatic
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