EXCELLANT VIDEO-- Why Hunters Are Seeing Fewer Wild Turkeys + What To Do About It!

[Fred Flintstone]

Knock- Knock-- This Jake and his 2 Sister Jennies came to my Front Yard late yesterday  afternoon. 

 Dinner of Unsalted dry roasted peanuts and Birdseed  with very little corn in it Mostly Millet and Black oil Sunflower seeds which they absolutely  relish.

  I only put their food out when the Turkeys arrive. And then,I  spend time with them . I am always out with them with my Orange Hat on.

  Been giving back for 8 Years now- year round. I had 21 Wild Turkeys visit before the Flock Breakup recently.

  The Jennies probably  did not Nest. The 3 Mature Hens ,I  am sure did. 

  Unique situation  here as, I  am the last house on a Deadend Road - Good Block of Hardwoods+ Wetlands- a Creek and a long closed down 1/2 mile Horsetrack on the other side of the Creek that the Town still cuts every 4 years or so. It is due.

  No Hunting Anywhere Down Here . Townhouses and other Houses are nearby.

A Sewer Line runs in 3 Long Trails that has to stay open in case the Water Dept needs to drive down to open one of the Manhole covers.

   I have Been Mowing that for many Years. Absolutely  Beautiful  now. Many people walk through as it connects with a Bridge that goes over the Creek and another Dead end road that leads to the Heritage Trail.

 Last Summer the Water Dept Boss Thanked me for keeping  the Sewer Line open.I and everybody walk their dogs down there.

 Pic of the Jake and his 2 Sister Jennies from yesterday. 

 

[vdep217]

41 minutes ago, Fred Flintstone said:

Knock- Knock-- This Jake and his 2 Sister Jennies came to my Front Yard late yesterday  afternoon. 

 Dinner of Unsalted dry roasted peanuts and Birdseed  with very little corn in it Mostly Millet and Black oil Sunflower seeds which they absolutely  relish.

  I only put their food out when the Turkeys arrive. And then,I  spend time with them . I am always out with them with my Orange Hat on.

  Been giving back for 8 Years now- year round. I had 21 Wild Turkeys visit before the Flock Breakup recently.

  The Jennies probably  did not Nest. The 3 Mature Hens ,I  am sure did. 

  Unique situation  here as, I  am the last house on a Deadend Road - Good Block of Hardwoods+ Wetlands- a Creek and a long closed down 1/2 mile Horsetrack on the other side of the Creek that the Town still cuts every 4 years or so. It is due.

  No Hunting Anywhere Down Here . Townhouses and other Houses are nearby.

A Sewer Line runs in 3 Long Trails that has to stay open in case the Water Dept needs to drive down to open one of the Manhole covers.

   I have Been Mowing that for many Years. Absolutely  Beautiful  now. Many people walk through as it connects with a Bridge that goes over the Creek and another Dead end road that leads to the Heritage Trail.

 Last Summer the Water Dept Boss Thanked me for keeping  the Sewer Line open.I and everybody walk their dogs down there.

 Pic of the Jake and his 2 Sister Jennies from yesterday. 

 

Fred please don't take this wrong as its not meant to be a dig or a bash just an observation of the areas I hunt.

 I live n hunt near several retirement communities and the feeding of deer and turkeys year round has an impact.  Where I hunt there is a very healthy population of turkeys to the point its becoming unhealthy that fish and game are trapping and removing birds because they are getting aggressive.  With these folks keeping bird feeders full and feeding corn from wallmart non stop these birds have no reason to leave, in my opinion creating the illusion of no birds in the surrounding areas they all live and stay in the development.   Why do you think the saftey zone was decreased to 150 for deer same effect.  I realize this isn't the case every where but in my areas it's absolutely fact

  So how far are turkeys going to adapt to these developments where there's protection from predators and an endless supply of food and water.

[Fred Flintstone]

1 hour ago, vdep217 said:

Fred please don't take this wrong as its not meant to be a dig or a bash just an observation of the areas I hunt.

 I live n hunt near several retirement communities and the feeding of deer and turkeys year round has an impact.  Where I hunt there is a very healthy population of turkeys to the point its becoming unhealthy that fish and game are trapping and removing birds because they are getting aggressive.  With these folks keeping bird feeders full and feeding corn from wallmart non stop these birds have no reason to leave, in my opinion creating the illusion of no birds in the surrounding areas they all live and stay in the development.   Why do you think the saftey zone was decreased to 150 for deer same effect.  I realize this isn't the case every where but in my areas it's absolutely fact

  So how far are turkeys going to adapt to these developments where there's protection from predators and an endless supply of food and water.

Well, I  disagree with your assessment.  First off,I  don't  feed the Deer. Remember  what,I wrote-- I don't   bring Birdseed out until the Turkeys arrive . Just enough food for them. And,I  usually stay out there for a good 10 minutes.

  Let me point out also that these 21 Wild Turkeys do not all stay in my immediate  area.  Right now,I  have been seeing  just 3. The 3 Mature Hens probably  have newly born Poults in the Horsetrack area.

  All the Gobblers- 10 or so and the rest of the Jakes have all left as usual-( annual) for Bald Hill- a absolutely  huge Hardwood area- again with no Hunting allowed.

  They will eventually  return and that requires memory . Some Bird Researchers  also believe  that Many Birds can use the Earths Magnetic  Field to find their way to and from. Almost like GPS.

   Now Orange County has a Strong Wild Turkey Population- but nothing like it was in the late 1990s. When Turkey Populations  have dipped- individuals  can make a difference  in their locale as Grant Woods has talked about.

   I am guessing  you Hunt your Turkeys in a NJ County that has a overabundance  of them. In that case your assessment  is correct for your particular  area.

 However every area is different. 

 I understand that Middle NJ and South NJ have a Tremendous  Wild Turkey Population . Hopefully some of them can be Trapped and released on ( Public Lands) in Sussex + Passaic Countys where Wild Turkeys are as rare as " Birds Teeth".

   I am in favor of closing down the Fall Turkey Season as well. Statewide in NJ-- Not just a few selected Countys. I think it should happen this year.

   Now alot of what,I  know is Field Observation  and any here can check out my Hiking Threads-- there are a good 8 of them. So,I  Hike Year Round.

 As far as reading material,I  constantly  go back to my 1994 Book- The Wild Turkey- Biology + Management- a 463 page Hardcover that cost me 70 Bucks in 1994.  Wild Turkey- Hunting + Management  by Wildlife Biologist- Lovett  Williams is another out of my 50 or so Turkey Books.

 In the end- it is up to the individual  as far as what that person can do to help the Wild Turkey where they live.

 Now Nick March has made a good observation and shared knowledge  about some types of Corn that are Toxic to Birds.  Hopefully-- less of this Corn will be set out so Turkeys can Thrive.

 Bowing Off The Dojo Floor.

[Lunatic]

2 hours ago, Fred Flintstone said:

Well, I  disagree with your assessment.  First off,I  don't  feed the Deer. Remember  what,I wrote-- I don't   bring Birdseed out until the Turkeys arrive . Just enough food for them. And,I  usually stay out there for a good 10 minutes.

  Let me point out also that these 21 Wild Turkeys do not all stay in my immediate  area.  Right now,I  have been seeing  just 3. The 3 Mature Hens probably  have newly born Poults in the Horsetrack area.

  All the Gobblers- 10 or so and the rest of the Jakes have all left as usual-( annual) for Bald Hill- a absolutely  huge Hardwood area- again with no Hunting allowed.

  They will eventually  return and that requires memory . Some Bird Researchers  also believe  that Many Birds can use the Earths Magnetic  Field to find their way to and from. Almost like GPS.

   Now Orange County has a Strong Wild Turkey Population- but nothing like it was in the late 1990s. When Turkey Populations  have dipped- individuals  can make a difference  in their locale as Grant Woods has talked about.

   I am guessing  you Hunt your Turkeys in a NJ County that has a overabundance  of them. In that case your assessment  is correct for your particular  area.

 However every area is different. 

 I understand that Middle NJ and South NJ have a Tremendous  Wild Turkey Population . Hopefully some of them can be Trapped and released on ( Public Lands) in Sussex + Passaic Countys where Wild Turkeys are as rare as " Birds Teeth".

   I am in favor of closing down the Fall Turkey Season as well. Statewide in NJ-- Not just a few selected Countys. I think it should happen this year.

   Now alot of what,I  know is Field Observation  and any here can check out my Hiking Threads-- there are a good 8 of them. So,I  Hike Year Round.

 As far as reading material,I  constantly  go back to my 1994 Book- The Wild Turkey- Biology + Management- a 463 page Hardcover that cost me 70 Bucks in 1994.  Wild Turkey- Hunting + Management  by Wildlife Biologist- Lovett  Williams is another out of my 50 or so Turkey Books.

 In the end- it is up to the individual  as far as what that person can do to help the Wild Turkey where they live.

 Now Nick March has made a good observation and shared knowledge  about some types of Corn that are Toxic to Birds.  Hopefully-- less of this Corn will be set out so Turkeys can Thrive.

 Bowing Off The Dojo Floor.

How can you say both? 
why apply restrictions everywhere when they may only be needed in some areas? That’s why we have zones to accommodate area specific data 

[Fred Flintstone]

47 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

How can you say both? 
why apply restrictions everywhere when they may only be needed in some areas? That’s why we have zones to accommodate area specific data 

Just my personal  opinion.  Close down all Fall Turkey Hunting for 1 year in all Zones.

[Lunatic]

38 minutes ago, Fred Flintstone said:

Just my personal  opinion.  Close down all Fall Turkey Hunting for 1 year in all Zones.

That’s the biggest problem we have when discussing this type of subject. We get the same thing from some deer hunters. 1 do and one buck per year for the entire state because they can not kill a deer 🦌 n their own zone. Meanwhile there are zones overrun with deer in need of population reduction or at least no harm if more are taken. Maybe you have a reason for state wide elimination of fall season, that’s what I asked. 

[bushden]

1 hour ago, Fred Flintstone said:

Just my personal  opinion.  Close down all Fall Turkey Hunting for 1 year in all Zones.

I really think that way to extreme and just not necessary. There are zones out there that have so many turkeys that you would have to commit suicide to not successfully take a bird and others that could use better management because you rarely ever see birds there. Not so long ago I would see flocks of 20 plus in zone 11, now you are lucky to see a couple birds there, head to  south jersey and they are chasing people there are so many birds.  Management needs to be by zone.

Edited June 15, 2021 by bushden

[Fred Flintstone]

1 hour ago, bushden said:

I really think that way to extreme and just not necessary. There are zones out there that have so many turkeys that you would have to commit suicide to not successfully take a bird and others that could use better management because you rarely ever see birds there. Not so long ago I would see flocks of 20 plus in zone 11, now you are lucky to see a couple birds there, head to  south jersey and they are chasing people there are so many birds.  Management needs to be by zone.

    You might remember  that some years back that about 4 Fall Turkey Zones were closed for about 3 Years. Zones 5,6,+ 7 and one other,I  believe.

       I did help out some.  

      In the future,I  would like to see New Jersey have a max of 1 Fall Turkey. 1 Fall Permit period.

  And a max of 3 Spring Gobblers in New Jersey. 

 

 

 

[bushden]

55 minutes ago, Fred Flintstone said:

    You might remember  that some years back that about 4 Fall Turkey Zones were closed for about 3 Years. Zones 5,6,+ 7 and one other,I  believe.

       I did help out some.  

      In the future,I  would like to see New Jersey have a max of 1 Fall Turkey. 1 Fall Permit period.

  And a max of 3 Spring Gobblers in New Jersey. 

 

 

 

I agree they need to manage the flocks better, if that meant closing down fall season in zones with low turkey counts, or some kind of limitations I would not be opposed, I am just not in favor of closing all zones when many are over populated. Hood game management is paramount to overall success of the programs and in the long run better flocks for all

[Lunatic]

1 hour ago, Fred Flintstone said:

    You might remember  that some years back that about 4 Fall Turkey Zones were closed for about 3 Years. Zones 5,6,+ 7 and one other,I  believe.

       I did help out some.  

      In the future,I  would like to see New Jersey have a max of 1 Fall Turkey. 1 Fall Permit period.

  And a max of 3 Spring Gobblers in New Jersey. 

 

 

 

Sorry, for the reasons I stated in my previous post,  there is no logic in your idea of state wide regulations. Let me give you this example: if there was a zone with huge and unmanageable numbers of turkeys would you be for drastic bag limit increase for the entire state? No you would not be. Why then are you for it going the other way. 

[Fred Flintstone]

24 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

Sorry, for the reasons I stated in my previous post,  there is no logic in your idea of state wide regulations. Let me give you this example: if there was a zone with huge and unmanageable numbers of turkeys would you be for drastic bag limit increase for the entire state? No you would not be. Why then are you for it going the other way. 

Well- we disagree.  I have no problem with that.

[nickmarch]

The more I look the more I think baiting is the problem with turkey populations.

Most of us hunt public ground where there is bait all over the place for close to half a year.

If you look at zones with very little public ground you will see a lot of turkeys being harvested.

Zone 20 is small with very little public ground to hunt.  They get the most (750) weekly permits.  Almost one quarter of the total birds taken each spring come from zone 20. 

22 zones and a zone (20)  with very little public ground gets almost 1/4 of the total toms shot.  

Without a lot of public ground that's being baited to death they get the most birds.

[Fred Flintstone]

15 hours ago, nickmarch said:

The more I look the more I think baiting is the problem with turkey populations.

Most of us hunt public ground where there is bait all over the place for close to half a year.

If you look at zones with very little public ground you will see a lot of turkeys being harvested.

Zone 20 is small with very little public ground to hunt.  They get the most (750) weekly permits.  Almost one quarter of the total birds taken each spring come from zone 20. 

22 zones and a zone (20)  with very little public ground gets almost 1/4 of the total toms shot.  

Without a lot of public ground that's being baited to death they get the most birds.

That does make sense. Probably  the more Guest + member views on this Ground Breaking Video above- the Better.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

  Since this is the off season and a good time to discuss above video- on 2 other Hunting sites, I  am reading what members think about ( Taking 1 Gobbler Within the First 10 Days Of The Spring Gobbler Season).

   Grant Woods brings that up very early in this video.

  More then a few members brought that up on a New York Hunting site almost identical  to this one.

  Some members on old Gobbler brought that up as well. If you have been following  Threads on that site- Kentucky may have to go to a 1 Gobbler Limit. Personally, I  dont think that would work as Hunters would just take #2 on their own Lands and others who hunt Public would just not report their 1st Public Tom.  Many would go out for #2 and report that one .

   So, I  think for Kentucky- The ( Taking of 1 Gobbler during the first 10 days) is more feasible. 

 But,I  digress.  

   Would the ( Taking 1 Gobbler during the first 10 days) work in New Jersey?

  I think so. For one thing the less skilled Spring Turkey Hunter now has a better chance to take a Gobbler on the 2nd day of the Spring Season and so on- 3rd day,etc.

  To go with the above- once you get a solid 15 Springs under your Belt- there is very little Skill difference  between  any of us who have that many years also- be it Woodsmanship  Skills or Calling skills. 

   So let's say a very Skillful Spring Turkey Hunter takes his 1st Gobbler on the 1st day of the Spring Turkey Season.

  That leaves " the door open" for a much less skilled Turkey hunter to have a much better opportunity  on Public Dirt to Kill his Gobbler.

  I dont think any of the most successful  Spring Hunters in New Jersey would want that System in play. 

  On the other Hand- less Skilled Turkey Hunters  with less then 6 years under their belt on Public Dirt would welcome it.

   I understand  that Pennsylvania  Turkey Hunters really make a Beeline for South New Jersey . When some get their Tom- they are " out of the game" for 10 days. Leaving the Local NJ Hunters more then happy.

  Personally, I  would not mind if this System would be put in place in my Home State Of New York.

  One member on that New York Site with nearly 50 Years of Spring Turkey Hunting- failed to Tag a Tom. Nothing was heard. 

  From Kentucky, Mississippi, parts of New York,Northren New Jersey,etc- it is not looking good as far as Turkey Numbers go.

[Fred Flintstone]

  Still waiting to see Turkey Poults  in my area.

 Nothing as of yet.