$15 Minimum Wage

[hammer4reel]

Just now, stratocaster said:

"im tired of paying for business owners shortfalls .">>>Not to pounce on you, but how is this even logical.  Your taxes are paid to the treasury and don't subsidize any business.

"so instead of each person making enough to live here , those of us working making enough are getting taxed to the max ." >>>Again, what is the logic of "making enough", and the state sets the state income tax so ultimately your complaint is that NJ taxes are out of control and higher and higher taxes aren't the solution.  So Murphy and the democrats have gotten it wrong again and again. 

"its the rest of us paying higher taxes to pay for all the governments handouts given so those under payed workers can survive here ".  >>>What does "under payed " mean,  the govt of NJ has only itself to blame for making the situation worse for citizens, it sets policy, fees, taxes...you are simply making the argument that no matter how much you give the govt in taxes they will waste it or spend it to keep themselves in power.  Businesses hire people to perform functions and ultimately try to make a profit by providing a service or a product to fill a need,  the govt should never be picking winners or losers, the market should decide that. Businesses also take all the risk not the employees.  

Our tax money is paying for all the handout programs coming from the goverment.

under paid is those workers who live in NJ  and can’t make ends meet so need help.

Everyone  has their own opinion, mine is if more people earned a fair income everyone could live a better life.

 

while a business def has risks , its employees that make or break it .

guys making a few bucks more are more apt to take their job a little more seriously also 

[Stan Putz]

At the risk of sounding like a liberal, I always thought we should have a student minimum wage for anyone under 18 ($7.00?), and another minimum wage for everyone else ($15+). Making someone devote their day to work for any less is basically an insult as I see it. I was paying guys $20/hour back in the early 90s when I ran my deer processing business, but obviously it was part time work and there were no benefits involved.

I also think we should deport all the illegals and fine the hell out of any business that hires them.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Stan Putz

[Lunatic]

13 hours ago, stratocaster said:

"im tired of paying for business owners shortfalls .">>>Not to pounce on you, but how is this even logical.  Your taxes are paid to the treasury and don't subsidize any business.

"so instead of each person making enough to live here , those of us working making enough are getting taxed to the max ." >>>Again, what is the logic of "making enough", and the state sets the state income tax so ultimately your complaint is that NJ taxes are out of control and higher and higher taxes aren't the solution.  So Murphy and the democrats have gotten it wrong again and again. 

"its the rest of us paying higher taxes to pay for all the governments handouts given so those under payed workers can survive here ".  >>>What does "under payed " mean,  the govt of NJ has only itself to blame for making the situation worse for citizens, it sets policy, fees, taxes...you are simply making the argument that no matter how much you give the govt in taxes they will waste it or spend it to keep themselves in power.  Businesses hire people to perform functions and ultimately try to make a profit by providing a service or a product to fill a need,  the govt should never be picking winners or losers, the market should decide that. Businesses also take all the risk not the employees.  

I think he is saying since businesses don't pay their workers enough we end up subsidizing these workers with tax money, via welfare etc.
I don;t necessary agree because higher wages = higher cost of services/products so we end up paying for it anyway,

[archer36]

2 hours ago, Stan Putz said:

At the risk of sounding like a liberal, I always thought we should have a student minimum wage for anyone under 18 ($7.00?), and another minimum wage for everyone else ($15+). Making someone devote their day to work for any less is basically an insult as I see it. I was paying guys $20/hour back in the early 90s when I ran my deer processing business, but obviously it was part time work and there were no benefits involved.

I also think we should deport all the illegals and fine the hell out of any business that hires them.

God forbid "at the risk of sounding like a Liberal". If it's right, it's right. LOL

[archer36]

14 hours ago, hammer4reel said:

Our tax money is paying for all the handout programs coming from the goverment.

under paid is those workers who live in NJ  and can’t make ends meet so need help.

Everyone  has their own opinion, mine is if more people earned a fair income everyone could live a better life.

 

while a business def has risks , its employees that make or break it .

guys making a few bucks more are more apt to take their job a little more seriously also 

Yes, we all pay for underpaid workers in more ways than one. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#431ac520720b

You think they can afford to pay more?????????

Edited January 22, 2019 by archer36

[vdep217]

It my thinking it sort of depends on the company..  for instance.   Wawa does not start less than 10 dollars an hour.   But at a 30 hour average you get full benefits that cost the employee roughly 30 dollars the company covers the rest.   Also they match 401k dollar for dollar to 3 percent and 50 cents on the dollar to 5 percent.   They also have a great profit sharing program paid time off etc.  Along with other perks from various partners..  so in reality wages are higher than what is merely brought home..  I know there aren't a lot of places that do this but we can't group all companies into one bucket.

   So raising the mandatory minimum to 15 here who is it going to hurt in the end.. the employee..  not just here but all companies will cut back what they cover and offer benefit and retirement wise..  and in know most today don't look that far ahead but as s contributor to the 401k and earning the profit sharing since I was 18. I have and will continue to build a nice retirement fund that will rival and in most cases beat most if not all pension funds.  Most only look at what in it for me now not looking down the road or the effects of instant gratification for the now...

Edited January 22, 2019 by vdep217

[Haskell_Hunter]

4 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Yes, we all pay for underpaid workers in more ways than one. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#431ac520720b

You think they can afford to pay more?????????

We screw workers every time by pouring more money into things thinking that we're doing the right thing.

Things become more expensive when people can afford to buy more of it.  So when you subsidize anything, you are artificially increasing the price.  It's a lose-lose solution.

[Stan Putz]

11 minutes ago, archer36 said:

God forbid "at the risk of sounding like a Liberal". If it's right, it's right. LOL

Given the direction that the Democratic party has gone in the last 30 years, and the types of people I observe and interact with who identify themselves as liberals, I really don't want to be part of their "club". Probably another topic for another day.

But I get what you are saying.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Stan Putz

[archer36]

2 minutes ago, Haskell_Hunter said:

We screw workers every time by pouring more money into things thinking that we're doing the right thing.

Things become more expensive when people can afford to buy more of it.  So when you subsidize anything, you are artificially increasing the price.  It's a lose-lose solution.

I sort of agree with the premise but don't agree "lose/lose". When people make enough money to live decently, it helps all of society. Reduced petty crimes, less public assistance, more dignity. I see it as "chicken and egg" question. Do high wages cause high prices or do high prices cause high wages? You may think you KNOW the answer but I doubt it. No one really knows. 

[archer36]

9 minutes ago, Stan Putz said:

Given the direction that the Democratic party has gone in the last 30 years, and the types of people I observe and interact with who identify themselves as liberals, I really don't want to be part of their "club". Probably another topic for another day.

But I get what you are saying.

There are those "types" of people on all sides. No one has a monopoly on that.

Edited January 22, 2019 by archer36

[Stan Putz]

1 minute ago, archer36 said:

There are those "types" of people on all sides. No one has a monopoly on that. 

 

[Lunatic]

41 minutes ago, archer36 said:

I sort of agree with the premise but don't agree "lose/lose". When people make enough money to live decently, it helps all of society. Reduced petty crimes, less public assistance, more dignity. I see it as "chicken and egg" question. Do high wages cause high prices or do high prices cause high wages? You may think you KNOW the answer but I doubt it. No one really knows. 

Who pays for the high minimum wages? Who pays for people making prevailing wages? Do we really think it is some invisible entity paying for it all? We are paying for it. So the question we need to really answer is do we want to be a capitalistic, free market economy, or do we want to live in socialism or even communism, where your or my hard work is used to make others comfortable or not hungry. We are lready on a slippery slope to socialism and what is happening is that our labor force is falling apart. Any price or wage set artificially eliminates competition. This in turn produces inferior products and lazy, uneducated, without any ambition, unwilling to improve itself labor force.  This is not a solution, this is a recipe for disaster.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Lunatic

[archer36]

We have not been a free, capitalistic society for MANY years.

On a slippery slope to Socialism? Funny. Government subsidies (corporate welfare) everywhere. Social Security. Unemployment Insurance. Government bailouts of Wall Street. Bailouts of the Auto Industry. Where do I stop?

What is a "high minimum wage" any way? 

Who's standard?

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by archer36

[Live to Hunt]

27 minutes ago, archer36 said:

We have not been a free, capitalistic society for MANY years.

On a slippery slope to Socialism? Funny. Government subsidies (corporate welfare) everywhere. Social Security. Unemployment Insurance. Government bailouts of Wall Street. Bailouts of the Auto Industry. Where do I stop?

What is a "high minimum wage" any way? 

Who's standard?

 

Good point 

[Lunatic]

29 minutes ago, archer36 said:

We have not been a free, capitalistic society for MANY years.

On a slippery slope to Socialism? Funny. Government subsidies (corporate welfare) everywhere. Social Security. Unemployment Insurance. Government bailouts of Wall Street. Bailouts of the Auto Industry. Where do I stop?

What is a "high minimum wage" any way? 

Who's standard?

 

So you imply you don't like it but you want more?