It is sad what hunting has become.....are we our own worst enemies????

[DV1]

17 hours ago, Nomad said:

It’s easy to relax and smell the roses when you shot a bigger buck  then just about anyone has shot in Maine!

You know, it was right about that time. 

Pretty sure it had more to do with my first time back to Maine, starting grouse hunting and fishing up there again, and the entire "camp" with family that did it. That stuff is a lot of fun too, and there is no stress doing it. Besides, that buck does take up a lot of space on the wall, not much more room for another anyway so I had to stop chasing them. 

 

[Lunatic]

30 minutes ago, Michael Britt said:

Every single area that has deer has mature bucks. The question is what % of the overall population does that age/sex class comprise. Some areas have a better age structure than others.

In order for what you're saying to be true, EVERY SINGLE BUCK has to die before age 4 by hunting, vehicle collisions, EHD, etc.

Every single area but not every single property and in NJ where the land is cut up to small parcels the area means the property. 
 

[archer36]

What do all these posts have to do with Shed Hunting? 

[DV1]

11 hours ago, Pathman said:

It's not like we have 6 (currently) buck tags in our pocket to use whenever we feel like, they come and go with the individual seasons right? So maybe at some point in a particular season a guy decides he wants to shoot another buck, maybe the weather is great for a hunt, maybe he gets a monster buck on his cam but is tagged out, etc., there could be many reasons a 7 th tag could get additional deer dead when most wont shoot does at this time of year.

You mentioned previously that you were on that first Federation Deer Committee with me 15+ years ago, so you shouldn't have to guess at this, they told us. Maybe you missed the meeting, but I remember our discussions on the season/permit structure all very clearly. 

They said the buck tags are incentive to get hunters in the woods in hopes they will shoot some does while they are out there. They also said the permit/season structure is the way it is for revenue purposes. Buck tags expire when they do so a bow hunter will have to buy another one if he wants to hunt the rut. A gun hunter will have to buy a different tag to kill a buck both buck week, and ML, and now, if the new proposals go through, permit shotgun.

Human nature is such that many people feel they need to get their money's worth, so in the last few days, a bowhunter who might not normally shoot a 2 yr old, 100 inch 8 point will, just because that tag is expiring. This happens A LOT. It happens to some extent in ML too as that season winds down and that buck tag in the pocket cannot be carried over to permit shogun or winter bow. They know this, and they also know that allowing that buck tag to be carried over will satisfy the incentive part of keeping a hunter in the woods, in hopes he/she will shoot more does. It IS largely about revenue. 

All that stated above is not me trashing the Division, or F&G, it's what they have told me or the committee on multiple occasions. We don't have to guess at why they do what they do, they have told us.

 

[JHbowhunter]

12 minutes ago, DV1 said:

You mentioned previously that you were on that first Federation Deer Committee with me 15+ years ago, so you shouldn't have to guess at this, they told us. Maybe you missed the meeting, but I remember our discussions on the season/permit structure all very clearly. 

They said the buck tags are incentive to get hunters in the woods in hopes they will shoot some does while they are out there. They also said the permit/season structure is the way it is for revenue purposes. Buck tags expire when they do so a bow hunter will have to buy another one if he wants to hunt the rut. A gun hunter will have to buy a different tag to kill a buck both buck week, and ML, and now, if the new proposals go through, permit shotgun.

Human nature is such that many people feel they need to get their money's worth, so in the last few days, a bowhunter who might not normally shoot a 2 yr old, 100 inch 8 point will, just because that tag is expiring. This happens A LOT. It happens to some extent in ML too as that season winds down and that buck tag in the pocket cannot be carried over to permit shogun or winter bow. They know this, and they also know that allowing that buck tag to be carried over will satisfy the incentive part of keeping a hunter in the woods, in hopes he/she will shoot more does. It IS largely about revenue. 

All that stated above is not me trashing the Division, or F&G, it's what they have told me or the committee on multiple occasions. We don't have to guess at why they do what they do, they have told us.

 

This guy gets it and exactly why I say 2 flex buck tags, any weapon any season. It would change behavior, get more does shot, and allow younger bucks to get some more age on them.  DV1 just said everything I been saying for years because it's true. 

[fab]

2 flex tags works for hunters but the agency will have to greatly increase the cost of those 2 tags to make up for the lost revenue by not selling 3 additional buck stubs.    
 

either way we pay.   
 

 

[bucky]

15 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

This guy gets it and exactly why I say 2 flex buck tags, any weapon any season. It would change behavior, get more does shot, and allow younger bucks to get some more age on them.  DV1 just said everything I been saying for years because it's true. 

You cry there are no bucks around but you still push for two buck tags But if there were two tags make it one gun and one bow so everyone has equal opportunity 

Edited December 29, 2023 by bucky

[electric10162]

15 minutes ago, fab said:

2 flex tags works for hunters but the agency will have to greatly increase the cost of those 2 tags to make up for the lost revenue by not selling 3 additional buck stubs.    
 

either way we pay.   
 

 

Increase the cost of the archery and firearm licenses. Bear tag should be the same or more as the buck tag. Coyote tag too

[Pathman]

30 minutes ago, DV1 said:

You mentioned previously that you were on that first Federation Deer Committee with me 15+ years ago, so you shouldn't have to guess at this, they told us. Maybe you missed the meeting, but I remember our discussions on the season/permit structure all very clearly. 

They said the buck tags are incentive to get hunters in the woods in hopes they will shoot some does while they are out there. They also said the permit/season structure is the way it is for revenue purposes. Buck tags expire when they do so a bow hunter will have to buy another one if he wants to hunt the rut. A gun hunter will have to buy a different tag to kill a buck both buck week, and ML, and now, if the new proposals go through, permit shotgun.

Human nature is such that many people feel they need to get their money's worth, so in the last few days, a bowhunter who might not normally shoot a 2 yr old, 100 inch 8 point will, just because that tag is expiring. This happens A LOT. It happens to some extent in ML too as that season winds down and that buck tag in the pocket cannot be carried over to permit shogun or winter bow. They know this, and they also know that allowing that buck tag to be carried over will satisfy the incentive part of keeping a hunter in the woods, in hopes he/she will shoot more does. It IS largely about revenue. 

All that stated above is not me trashing the Division, or F&G, it's what they have told me or the committee on multiple occasions. We don't have to guess at why they do what they do, they have told us.

 

I said it wasn’t 100% revenue driven, not that revenue wasn’t a large part of the equation. 

Your “human nature “ comment is right on the money, almost every hunter I know looks to “burn my tag” when a season segment comes to an end, so yes, a 7th tag at some point in the season will absolutely incentivize hunters to get back in the woods, but as far as shooting more does while they’re out there, I believe is a pipe dream. 
Guys that spend the money on an additional buck tag will not for the most part shoot a doe, they wouldn’t need to buy another (or any) buck tag to shoot more does, the doe “tags” are unlimited, so that point makes no sense, and if it has any impact it would be minimal at best. 

 

 

[JHbowhunter]

19 minutes ago, fab said:

2 flex tags works for hunters but the agency will have to greatly increase the cost of those 2 tags to make up for the lost revenue by not selling 3 additional buck stubs.    
 

either way we pay.   
 

 

i always said those two tags would have to be expensive while shooting does should be "free". 

[JHbowhunter]

Just now, Pathman said:

Guys that spend the money on an additional buck tag will not for the most part shoot a doe, they wouldn’t need to buy another (or any) buck tag to shoot more does, the doe “tags” are unlimited, so that point makes no sense, and if it has any impact it would be minimal at best. 

This I agree with 100% which is why i said all along, adding the 7th tag will do nothing to shoot more does. 

[JHbowhunter]

26 minutes ago, bucky said:

You cry there are no bucks around but you still push for two buck tags But if there were two tags make it one gun and one bow so everyone has equal opportunity 

what don't you get about flex tags?  any weapon any season. It's your choice not the revenue center.  99% of members on here are conservative or libertarian, and believe in freedom of choice - this gives you the choice to use your tags as you see fit. I cannot comprehend how that would even be perceived as a negative, so much that it really hurts my brain. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by JHbowhunter

[electric10162]

1 hour ago, archer36 said:

What do all these posts have to do with Shed Hunting? 

I was wondering how long this comment would take

[Pathman]

26 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

This guy gets it and exactly why I say 2 flex buck tags, any weapon any season. It would change behavior, get more does shot, and allow younger bucks to get some more age on them.  DV1 just said everything I been saying for years because it's true. 

“This guy gets it” because it fits your narrative!🤨

It would change behavior all right, you’d have the “two buck guys” like yourself , shoot two deer a year and hang it up, the deer population would spike like crazy and we’d be back to the overpopulation issues we had 20 years ago. 
But, I realize that’s exactly what you want, you’d like nothing more then every hunter in the state to only be able to kill two bucks and a doe or two so that your hunting spots have a deer behind every tree! C’mon deny it if you dare!😂

Listen, I have nothing against trophy hunting, maybe that got lost in translation somewhere in all these posts when trying to respond to all the challenges to my thoughts, but what I do have an issue with is when trophy hunters attempt to manipulate the regulations for everyone else to suit their individual agenda. 
Thats when things between hunters go sideways. 
I dont know how we as hunters allowed the narrative that “trophy hunting” (as long as the meat isn’t simply discarded in the field) to become this villainous affair. I guess it was when we had to start justifying hunting itself and used “conservation” as the excuse. Looking back that probably was a bad idea, but hindsight is 20-20 of course. 
 

 

[JHbowhunter]

1 hour ago, archer36 said:

What do all these posts have to do with Shed Hunting? 

well 6 buck tags, deer drivers and crossbows and long ass seasons means too many bucks get killed and leaves very little for the shed hunters.  Guys spend hour afoot to find a tiny piece of bone.  It's just not fair I tell ya!