Interesting commentary on PA public land

[hostak126]

5 hours ago, chenrossi said:

Do you have any proof of that? Legitimate proof and not here say.
 

This is not the first time I’ve heard of people making claims like this in different states saying this goes on there too but I’m not buying it. 

My boss is a PA resident and has enough trouble getting on to purchase his licenses every year. 

[Devil Horns]

10 minutes ago, hostak126 said:

My boss is a PA resident and has enough trouble getting on to purchase his licenses every year. 

This was the first year you could buy doe tags online. 

[Rusty]

17 minutes ago, MGHunter66 said:

You guys do realize that in mountains with farmland bottoms the optimum carrying capacity is only 20-25 deer per sq/m right? 

That's a forest that hasn't been destroyed by the deer.  Forests in very poor condition have a carrying capacity of only 5-10 deer / mi.   Pa destroyed their forests by managing for the maximum number of deer possible for far too long.  That's why they brought Gary Alt in, to have him seriously reduce the herd in an attempt to save the forests.  

[MGHunter66]

15 minutes ago, Rusty said:

That's a forest that hasn't been destroyed by the deer.  Forests in very poor condition have a carrying capacity of only 5-10 deer / mi.   Pa destroyed their forests by managing for the maximum number of deer possible for far too long.  That's why they brought Gary Alt in, to have him seriously reduce the herd in an attempt to save the forests.  

I agree, was talking about rich ag areas I hunted that paralleled steep mountains. My point was and is most guys not seeing tons of deer assume that it’s from liberal bag limits which at times is the furthest thing from being true.

[tcook8296]

1 hour ago, MGHunter66 said:

I agree, was talking about rich ag areas I hunted that paralleled steep mountains. My point was and is most guys not seeing tons of deer assume that it’s from liberal bag limits which at times is the furthest thing from being true.

The problem I see is the bucks are being shot over the does in areas that do have deer. Guys are not shooting does when they have 6 buck tags. 

The public lands, everything brown is down. 

I don't see more quality deer being shot. 

Nj was always capable of producing nice deer but more often than not, these deer most always have a story behind them are not accessible for the average hunter who is not connected. 

I think I saw a handful of bucks shot 6 day on this site. 

I hunted 6 day. This was the least amount of shooting I have ever heard an the weather was good. 

Where are they?

Edited December 18, 2023 by tcook8296

[Eyesofthewoods]

I’ve hinted PA my entire life and mostly private farms and SGL.  I’ve killled many deer on public and private. Some years are better than others obviously but with the woods being so big and not as many hunters where I hunt as there used to be a lot of deer go unaccounted for I think.  I saw 8 deer in 3.5 days of hunting PA this year.  Where I’m hunting that’s actually not too bad. 

[LittleM]

7 hours ago, chenrossi said:

Do you have any proof of that? Legitimate proof and not here say.
 

This is not the first time I’ve heard of people making claims like this in different states saying this goes on there too but I’m not buying it. 

Well known wildlife photographers buy tags, or at least enter the draw for them in MT.  Not for the common species but for animals like bighorn sheep and wolves and when there is a specialty hunt.  Back when tags for grizzly bears were gonna go on sale there was a concerted effort to draw them off.  There was a Facebook page. 

[chenrossi]

1 hour ago, LittleM said:

Well known wildlife photographers buy tags, or at least enter the draw for them in MT.  Not for the common species but for animals like bighorn sheep and wolves and when there is a specialty hunt.  Back when tags for grizzly bears were gonna go on sale there was a concerted effort to draw them off.  There was a Facebook page. 

Wow. That is wild that it was known and agencies did nothing to prevent it. A friend of mine raised it to me about it going on in FL recently which is why I was curious if it was a real thing or people just making excuses for not getting tags.

[Mpdiesel]

33 minutes ago, tcook8296 said:

 

I think I saw a handful of bucks shot 6 day on this site. 

I hunted 6 day. This was the least amount of shooting I have ever heard an the weather was good. 

Where are they?

We all know the answer. There aren't as many as there used to be. It was probably 8 years ago all the gun clubs near me were all bragging for shooting club records for 2-3 years in a row. Since then they have been shooting nothing but dinks and probably 50% of what their average used to be. 

I started chasing bigger bucks in NJ about 10 years ago and year after year it gets harder and harder to find a decent buck. That was really the final straw to start hunting the midwest. I'd much rather spend the money out there especially since the state made it clear they don't care about managing the deer. Hopefully next year I can make a solid 10-14 days of gun hunting the Midwest between Missouri and Illinois.

[tcook8296]

18 hours ago, Mpdiesel said:

We all know the answer. There aren't as many as there used to be. It was probably 8 years ago all the gun clubs near me were all bragging for shooting club records for 2-3 years in a row. Since then they have been shooting nothing but dinks and probably 50% of what their average used to be. 

 

Every one else is shooting dinks too which is the main reason they aren't getting posted. 

It's never about the antlers but it's always about the antlers. 

[MGHunter66]

2 hours ago, tcook8296 said:

Every one else is shooting dinks too which is the main reason they aren't getting posted. 

It's never about the antlers but it's always about the antlers. 

I can’t speak for your area and observations but I can about mine and this is what I see. For years around me a big buck was a 8pt with a 17-18 spread maybe scoring 110-120” max. Now I am seeing more archery 130”-140” taken then ever before. Years ago 6day was filled with hunter orange visible off every road, now I barely see anyone. A pretty big piece by me had one truck parked there, that’s it whereas both sides of the road were packed years ago. Here in NJ we got so used to an over population guys started to think that was the norm and sign of a healthy herd…. It’s not. So while Im seeing less deer I am definitely seeing more quality deer, hell I shot one of my best archery bucks this year. Sure there are guys that will shoot spikes and dinks but that isn’t the end of the world because the numbers of guys doing it are way down. 

[bucky]

3 hours ago, tcook8296 said:

Every one else is shooting dinks too which is the main reason they aren't getting posted. 

It's never about the antlers but it's always about the antlers. 

 Keep does unlimited in areas needed, less does make for a better rut, I witnessed this at Duke Farms during their deer reduction program. I was lucky enough to observe the transition of the deer herd, the rut was insane with bucks constantly on the move with less does around. There is only one fix in my opinion that's one and done with bucks like Pa.  but no antler restrictions, guys that want to shoot buck have at it but there are no redoes

Edited December 19, 2023 by bucky

[vdep217]

22 hours ago, Mpdiesel said:

We all know the answer. There aren't as many as there used to be. It was probably 8 years ago all the gun clubs near me were all bragging for shooting club records for 2-3 years in a row. Since then they have been shooting nothing but dinks and probably 50% of what their average used to be. 

I started chasing bigger bucks in NJ about 10 years ago and year after year it gets harder and harder to find a decent buck. That was really the final straw to start hunting the midwest. I'd much rather spend the money out there especially since the state made it clear they don't care about managing the deer. Hopefully next year I can make a solid 10-14 days of gun hunting the Midwest between Missouri and Illinois.

That's happened for years.  It seems it's in cycles when I was a kid a club got 33 wich was there record than a few years ago 36

[thefirstndsecond]

The problem is buck to doe ratio. Private is usually better. 

I know when I hunted with my buddy in Central PA. we saw deer every single day. We just had to go further in and stay away for the 3 day rifle hunters.

Most in the state only go for 3 days opening week and thats it.

A lot of doe tags don't get used. AND the reporting system is not that accurate.

[Mpdiesel]

5 hours ago, MGHunter66 said:

I can’t speak for your area and observations but I can about mine and this is what I see. For years around me a big buck was a 8pt with a 17-18 spread maybe scoring 110-120” max. Now I am seeing more archery 130”-140” taken then ever before. Years ago 6day was filled with hunter orange visible off every road, now I barely see anyone. A pretty big piece by me had one truck parked there, that’s it whereas both sides of the road were packed years ago. Here in NJ we got so used to an over population guys started to think that was the norm and sign of a healthy herd…. It’s not. So while Im seeing less deer I am definitely seeing more quality deer, hell I shot one of my best archery bucks this year. Sure there are guys that will shoot spikes and dinks but that isn’t the end of the world because the numbers of guys doing it are way down. 

I wish there was less people hunting. During 6 day my area gets crushed. Overall I see the complete opposite of what you are seeing. I hunt the pines and not in the point restricted areas. I never saw quantity but there was always quality. Generally if I put a camera out I would see the same 5-10 deer. A big buck was 130-140. Biggest known was a 8 point that went 154 but I feel at least 1 more would have went 150's. Now if I see something bigger than a 4 point it's a big buck. It really hasn't been the same since those clubs had those record years. I will say this year did have bigger bucks then the last like 3-4 seasons so hopefully its on the rebound.