Governor Murphy Stops Bear Hunt On All NJ's Owned Lands

[archer36]

4 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

Again check facts this is in Jackson..  as Haskell said bear are in all nj counties...  stopping the hunt will push more bears down south

Yeah. OK. There was a bear in New Brunswick , NJ too. These are isolated instances. Compare deer collisions to bear collisions and you will understand what I am talking about.  When a problem affects an extensive amount of residents, not just hunters, there is a better chance for action. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by archer36

[vdep217]

5 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Yeah. OK. There was a bear in New Brunswick , NJ too. These are isolated instances. Compare deer collisions to bear collisions and you will understand what I am talking about.  When a problem affects an extensive amount of residents, not just hunters, there is a better chance 

Your missing the point..  bear are def more capable of destruction than deer..  not just hit by cars..  do deer break into houses sure its happened but do they cause as much damage as bears breaking into homes or as often..  the point is the population needs to be kept in check before it becomes a major problem

5 minutes ago, archer36 said:

 

 

[vdep217]

9 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Yeah. OK. There was a bear in New Brunswick , NJ too. These are isolated instances. Compare deer collisions to bear collisions and you will understand what I am talking about.  When a problem affects an extensive amount of residents, not just hunters, there is a better chance for action. 

And where do you think these isolated instance bears are coming from...  up north where the carrying capacity of the land couldn't hold that particular animal....

[archer36]

17 hours ago, Rusty said:

I wonder if the Newark Watershed is included in this?  I hope not.  

Newark Watershed can be considered private property. It's really not a public use area unless you have permits to utilize it. 

[Haskell_Hunter]

31 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Sorry can't agree that they are as much of a problem as deer. You drive around the state in spring and mostly the fall and you see lots of road kills. How many bear do you see? It has to be understood that if an issue only affects a small percent of residents, it is hard to get action on it. I definitely agree that bears need to be controlled but the majority of people are oblivious to it. 

It's all about money.  Bears do far more destruction to property than deer do.  Deer do not break garage doors to get at garbage cans.  Break into houses and other structures.  Their economic impact is greater per animal.  There are 1/50th the amount of bears to deer in this state (or some other very small ratio), and that population size is already a problem.

It costs more money to relocate nuisance bears than it does deer.

So when I refer to impact, I am referring to economic impact and not necessarily the total amount of incidents for each animal.

[Haskell_Hunter]

32 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Yeah. OK. There was a bear in New Brunswick , NJ too. These are isolated instances. Compare deer collisions to bear collisions and you will understand what I am talking about.  When a problem affects an extensive amount of residents, not just hunters, there is a better chance for action. 

Please read everything at this link.  There is a lot of information here that will help understand the amount and impact of bear-human interactions.  The NJDEP has done a great job of cataloging and reporting on these things.

 

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearactivity_reports.htm

[hammer4reel]

1 hour ago, Bucksnbows said:

Two problems with that.  First, farmers own or lease private lands where bear hunting will continue.  Second, it's impossible for them to say they have crop damage this growing season when the hunt hasn't either happened or not yet.  The lawsuit(s) will come from Safari Club who has the deepest pockets with help from UBNJ, Federation, NJOA, and perhaps others.  And since the state supreme court has already heard this case twice over the years, it will be quickly moved back to them to uphold their earlier and last decision that the hunt is a part of the Comprehensive Black Bear Management Plan and is fully legal.  Again, Murphy is just pandering so that when it is overturned, he tells his peeps, "sorry, but I tried".  So long as he gets their money and their votes, he doesn't really care about bears.

Think about the legal efforts his office's attorneys (not DEP lawyers, BTW) will have to put forth to overcome his objection which is "public safety".  The lawyers put the Division staff on the stand and ask them about all of the bear hunting incidents involving injury or death to other hunters or innocent bystanders and the answer is zero.  Where do you go from there legally with your argument?     

    

Any farmer having state lands can argue the sanctuary probided by the state buffer allowed bears in excess to eat nightly from his fields .

Damage bears create is extensive . And if left unvhecked will become the states burden. Remember in NJ the state holds ownership of all its wildlife.

It's for that reason bag limits are out of control when it comes to deer.

The insurance companies always hold it over their head 

[NJ Predator]

Damn I would love to sit in a room with Archer, Haskell and a few others that have put a lot into this thread...the debate would be epic!

[230jhp]

2 hours ago, JHbowhunter said:

I don't think the NJ Auto insurance lobby would allow him to block deer hunting....  (nor could they do without the license and permit revenue)

Not so sure about that. They could raise premiums to compensate for the increased deer/vehicle collisions. If body shops have a lobby they would certainly  like the increased business from increased deer collisions.

[Lunatic]

4 hours ago, tcook8296 said:

He should take advantage of the state dental plan. 

If I was him I wouldnt smile too much

Dentists are not miracle workers!

[Bucksnbows]

1 hour ago, hammer4reel said:

Any farmer having state lands can argue the sanctuary probided by the state buffer allowed bears in excess to eat nightly from his fields .

Damage bears create is extensive . And if left unvhecked will become the states burden. Remember in NJ the state holds ownership of all its wildlife.

It's for that reason bag limits are out of control when it comes to deer.

The insurance companies always hold it over their head 

I fully agree with you.  My point is we need a lawsuit right now as in before the October archery season opens, and farmers cannot claim they have suffered losses like hunters can.  Next year, some farmers that farm state owned lands can be considered aggrieved, but not right now is all.  Safari Club has the deepest pockets, so follow the $ trail on the lawsuits.  If you want to donate, any of the organizations mentioned will be more than happy to take donations.  And you can with all non-profits tell them your donation is just for legal defense of the bear hunt if you choose.  Otherwise, a general donation can go to them just "keeping the lights on" so to speak.  

[archer36]

46 minutes ago, NJ Predator said:

Damn I would love to sit in a room with Archer, Haskell and a few others that have put a lot into this thread...the debate would be epic!

What debate? 

[Joeybeets]

Recently in nj.com just because Murphy did this doesn’t mean it will stick when challenged in a higher court.

 

h

[Joeybeets]

When a higher court looks at this the first thing that will be asked is how many times has the public’s safety been put into jeopardy ? None that I am aware of.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Joeybeets

[Bucksnbows]

1 minute ago, Joeybeets said:

Recently in nj.com just because Murphy did this doesn’t mean it will stick when challenged in a higher court.

 

h

Which is precisely true.  Murphy sent McCabe to the Division more than once, trying to get the hunt cancelled and without any support from the Division despite some here tossing that agency under the bus.  In the end, Murphy learned that there is a F&G Council that makes up the regulations and not the NJ legislature which is what he had assumed to be the case.  This is not a smart man, despite his millions in Wall Street money.  He knows he has no legal recourse, pulled the Obama trick of Executive Order hoping it would carry the day, and now can save face to his lefty brethren when it fails in the courts.  Which is why he also announced his support for the state legislature to take up the issue there.  If he knew his EO was going to stick, then there would be no need to try to make game laws in the legislature.