Is today’s deer herd nutritionally more healthy than prior to pro baiting laws

[Bucksnbows]

@Bonefreak baiting was always legal, you likely meant since they eliminated the 100 yard distance from the bait for deer?  

[archer36]

1 minute ago, Bucksnbows said:

Why not?  Plant geneticists strive for maximum yield when modifying seeds like corn or soybeans or whatever. How does that have a negative impact on human or deer health?  Remember that there are more whitetail deer in North America today than at any known time in history. 

I hear that a lot....."most deer than ever". My question is, who was taking population surveys years ago and how? Is it just habitat loss that makes it look that way?  I do agree that deer, in NJ at least experienced a big increase during the years leading up to 1999, when unlimited antlerless regs and unlimited permits were instituted. 

As with anything in nature, things are cyclical. Look at the Striped Bass fishery. It exploded. I remember when you had to hide your hook to bait it when fishing for Weakfish. They are rare these days. 

I don't buy into this contention that deer are more plentiful now more than ever. Who was keeping the numbers and doing the studies? 

[hammer4reel]

6 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

@Bonefreak baiting was always legal, you likely meant since they eliminated the 100 yard distance from the bait for deer?  

You mean being elevated within 100 yards .

baiting was always legal , you could sit right on the pile . You just couldn’t be elevated 

[vdep217]

2 minutes ago, archer36 said:

I hear that a lot....."most deer than ever". My question is, who was taking population surveys years ago and how? Is it just habitat loss that makes it look that way?  I do agree that deer, in NJ at least experienced a big increase during the years leading up to 1999, when unlimited antlerless regs and unlimited permits were instituted. 

As with anything in nature, things are cyclical. Look at the Striped Bass fishery. It exploded. I remember when you had to hide your hook to bait it when fishing for Weakfish. They are rare these days. 

I don't buy into this contention that deer are more plentiful now more than ever. Who was keeping the numbers and doing the studies? 

I will try to find it but will try

  A letter from fish and game to the mayor of lakehurst about releasing deer believe 1928

[Live to Hunt]

I don’t know about healthier but, probably tastier. 

[smittty]

56 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

Limits have been the same in this zone since I started hunting

You must be very young. But before theses liberal bag limits you could see over a hundred deer in a field and think nothing of it now if you see a few dozen that’s a big deal yes that was before the six month season and that brown and down thinking because you could only take a few deer a year and only had weeks to do it not six months to kill what you want. For Christ sake I reads post on here this week a guy had to go kill one more deer for his dog I mean come on now for your dog go pick up a roadkill. To many pig hunters makes me sick

[Bucksnbows]

33 minutes ago, archer36 said:

I hear that a lot....."most deer than ever". My question is, who was taking population surveys years ago and how? Is it just habitat loss that makes it look that way?  I do agree that deer, in NJ at least experienced a big increase during the years leading up to 1999, when unlimited antlerless regs and unlimited permits were instituted. 

As with anything in nature, things are cyclical. Look at the Striped Bass fishery. It exploded. I remember when you had to hide your hook to bait it when fishing for Weakfish. They are rare these days. 

I don't buy into this contention that deer are more plentiful now more than ever. Who was keeping the numbers and doing the studies? 

The simple answer is all states with whitetail deer. That species has been expanding its territory for many decades and its very well documented. We are not talking about just one state, NJ, the third smallest in land mass. Whitetails are edge habitat creatures and man makes the most edge of all others (wind, fire, disease, drought, etc.). As man expands his activities, whitetail deer will be a beneficiary unlike many other creatures which cannot hang around man.  

[Bonefreak]

14 minutes ago, smittty said:

You must be very young. But before theses liberal bag limits you could see over a hundred deer in a field and think nothing of it now if you see a few dozen that’s a big deal yes that was before the six month season and that brown and down thinking because you could only take a few deer a year and only had weeks to do it not six months to kill what you want. For Christ sake I reads post on here this week a guy had to go kill one more deer for his dog I mean come on now for your dog go pick up a roadkill. To many pig hunters makes me sick

I agree shooting deer for your dog is a lil off…but to each his own. That’s 1 lucky dog!!  
 

as for where me n Vdep cut our teeth in the deer woods 30-40 years ago in the pines…we never had 100 deer in a field!  

[archer36]

25 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

The simple answer is all states with whitetail deer. That species has been expanding its territory for many decades and its very well documented. We are not talking about just one state, NJ, the third smallest in land mass. Whitetails are edge habitat creatures and man makes the most edge of all others (wind, fire, disease, drought, etc.). As man expands his activities, whitetail deer will be a beneficiary unlike many other creatures which cannot hang around man.  

Once again. how are these statistics derived? Deer per square mile is misleading. If the area is only 20% deer habitat and the rest developed, then it's BS. Has there ever been a fixed "number" arrived at? Once again, who took these surveys and how were they done. Did they use helicopters 100 years ago. I am not doubting some of it but can't accept all of it. Maybe deer expanded because Bison were almost eliminated. As I mentioned, could have been a cyclical thing.

Drive down a suburban street that borders woods. You see deer on people's front lawns. Why? Habitat loss. The presence of deer makes you think they are overpopulated when the opposite can be true. 

Edited January 5 by archer36

[FDhunt1213]

39 minutes ago, smittty said:

You must be very young. But before theses liberal bag limits you could see over a hundred deer in a field and think nothing of it now if you see a few dozen that’s a big deal yes that was before the six month season and that brown and down thinking because you could only take a few deer a year and only had weeks to do it not six months to kill what you want. For Christ sake I reads post on here this week a guy had to go kill one more deer for his dog I mean come on now for your dog go pick up a roadkill. To many pig hunters makes me sick

That would be me ! I’ve picked up many road kills for my dog. But have WAY too Many does on a particular piece of property. It still needs more killed. 39 antlerless deer on 12 cams on 100 acres at the exact same time is not a healthy herd. And it’s zero of your business where the deer I kill go to be used. If it bothers you that much you’re welcome to try and do something about it. 

[huntyctyboy]

even with the somewhat reduced deer herd damage to the forest is still at an unprecedented level. browse lines in some places are like someone used a hedge trimmer. still plenty of edible deer.

[JHbowhunter]

23 minutes ago, FDhunt1213 said:

That would be me ! I’ve picked up many road kills for my dog. But have WAY too Many does on a particular piece of property. It still needs more killed. 39 antlerless deer on 12 cams on 100 acres at the exact same time is not a healthy herd. And it’s zero of your business where the deer I kill go to be used. If it bothers you that much you’re welcome to try and do something about it. 

you pig, why don't you tranquilize 20 if your does and relocate them to zones with no does? We can call it "redistribution". 

[FDhunt1213]

3 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

you pig, why don't you tranquilize 20 if your does and relocate them to zones with no does? We can call it "redistribution". 

Hahaha I’m fresh outta tranq darts unfortunately! 

[MGHunter66]

29 minutes ago, FDhunt1213 said:

If it bothers you that much you’re welcome to try and do something about it. 

Spoken like a true Mathews elitist 😂

[FDhunt1213]

Just now, MGHunter66 said:

Spoken like a true Mathews elitist 😂

How did you know !!???