NJ DFW Deer Forums for Suggested New Regulations - who went? thoughts?

[Bucndoe]

The old Permit Bow season bag limit was 2 deer of either sex, only 1 antlered. You could also buy as many permits as you like to shoot multiple bucks if you desired. 

Once the Bow Permit season changed to the permit being anterless only and you had to buy a buck stub, they showed their hand that it was all about revenue. When this change came they also cut a couple of weeks off the Regular Bow season.  Again, a revenue tactic.

Button bucks are rolled into the antlerless category so there is no true statistic for that.

[mazzgolf]

5 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

At this point I don't care if they make it 100 buck tags, the issue is we are not shooting enough does

And this is where I thought the people in the audience made good points. DFW knows (and says) we aren't shooting enough does - I mean, they had graphs they pointed to that showed doe harvest is dropping and they told us they want us shooting more does (and the farmers in the audience said they want us shooting more than that )

So people (more than one) got up and gave suggestions to increase doe harvest. EAB was one suggestion (again, that is what also surprised me) - people actually suggested expanding EAB to more zones and deeper into the season. But a couple did suggest that if you lower the number of buck tags such that hunters know they aren't going to have a buck tag in their pocket from September to February then they will hunt more does after they shoot their buck.

But then... after that person finished making their point, the next 15 minutes people went back to talking about APR  

[NotJust22s]

They want to increase the harvest numbers but a lot of zones have unlimited does already. Only thing they can increase is the number of buck tags. 
This lands right on the shoulders of the guys that cry over too many buck tags and not letting the bucks grow but don’t shoot any does. 
You want less buck tags start shooting some does.

[mazzgolf]

Oh, I remember the other thing that I thought about from last night. When I walked in, I scanned the room and noticed the majority were old, grey-haired white guys ...  I'm thinking, geez, is everyone over 60 in here?   Not everyone of course, but... if last night was representative of the NJ hunting community, then... it's old.

 

[Pathman]

1 hour ago, JHbowhunter said:

At this point I don't care if they make it 100 buck tags, the issue is we are not shooting enough does, so their logic makes absolutely no sense. They further exposed their real agenda, because you just know more of those permit bow buck tags will be sold that were not sold before.   BUCK TAGS ARE MONEY PURE AND SIMPLE

I think you may be misconstruing what they’re saying. 
Yes, they want more does killed, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want bucks killed. 
With the vast number of hunters that only shoot bucks (a lot more than you think), and/or only hunt a few times a year (weekend warrior buck week types), I think they’re trying to raise the total kills by adding that 7th buck tag. 
 

I’m not advocating either way, just making a point. 

[Lunatic]

7 hours ago, smittty said:

They’re trying to say only 9 hunters in the state took 3 or more bucks. I call bullshit.  I will also add that they already have everything hashed out already and that that public meeting is just a show. They have there minds made up and you’re comment means absolutely nothing 

We are usually on the same page on most issues but here is my observation on this topic: I lease a farm with 12 other guys + I know at least 4 more hunters. I’m the only guy I know who took 3 bucks in the last 15 years and this happened to me only one single time. Most years is one or two for me. 
I think in reality most people with deer hunting license hunt a couple of times/year and the guys who do it every chance they get become very selective. 

 

 

[Livesintrees]

Farmers that don’t have their land actively hunted, should not have a say in our regulations. They should also be disqualified from a depredation permit, if no other means of control is being implemented. And at one time many years ago EAB was also a requirement for the permit bow season. Horrible. You have small window to hunt the rut. I know I watched multiple bucks walk by during those few years waiting on a doe. So I let a “deer” that they want killed walk, to wait for another deer to kill. Eab does not work in a blanket fashion. Some Zones need more taken, and some less. Perhaps make EAB a requirement before additional bucks could be harvested. If you want more doe taken, 6 day would be a hell of a way to do it. Why do we never hear about DRAMATICALLY increasing the cost for non resident hunters? When we hunt out of state, we pay big. Bc they want deer killed according to them  they don’t care about the revenue (nonsense)  

 

[chenrossi]

2 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

Oh, I remember the other thing that I thought about from last night. When I walked in, I scanned the room and noticed the majority were old, grey-haired white guys ...  I'm thinking, geez, is everyone over 60 in here?   Not everyone of course, but... if last night was representative of the NJ hunting community, then... it's old.

 

You were just in the wrong section. 

 

The other funny thing. Every other forum, there was only 1 CPO at. Last night there were 3. This agency is something else. 

[mazzgolf]

41 minutes ago, chenrossi said:

You were just in the wrong section. 

Aww.. Did they put all the yoots in a corner somewhere? That's not right  

41 minutes ago, chenrossi said:

The other funny thing. Every other forum, there was only 1 CPO at. Last night there were 3. This agency is something else. 

Even more funny is they had to call one over to help calm down that one guy ...

[chenrossi]

24 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

Aww.. Did they put all the yoots in a corner somewhere? That's not right  

Even more funny is they had to call one over to help calm down that one guy ...

I think I missed that part because I left kind of pissed off I got asked to have a pow wow outside with one conveniently during the public comment period of all times during the forum and he made a joke if I was there to cause a ruckus or get people riled up. And that turned into a 20+ minute convo and I didn't want to be there all night. I had to still eat dinner, feed dog.. and I'm an hour away...Like you said it was  supposed to be done at a certain time so I was like there's no way I'm gonna get an opportunity to talk now so I just left. And there were a couple people I know there who were confused by the fact they saw me there and I wasn't around for the public comment period. 

[chenrossi]

3 hours ago, Livesintrees said:

Farmers that don’t have their land actively hunted, should not have a say in our regulations. They should also be disqualified from a depredation permit, if no other means of control is being implemented. And at one time many years ago EAB was also a requirement for the permit bow season. Horrible. You have small window to hunt the rut. I know I watched multiple bucks walk by during those few years waiting on a doe. So I let a “deer” that they want killed walk, to wait for another deer to kill. Eab does not work in a blanket fashion. Some Zones need more taken, and some less. Perhaps make EAB a requirement before additional bucks could be harvested. If you want more doe taken, 6 day would be a hell of a way to do it. Why do we never hear about DRAMATICALLY increasing the cost for non resident hunters? When we hunt out of state, we pay big. Bc they want deer killed according to them  they don’t care about the revenue (nonsense)  

 

These are two things I wanted to raise last night. Just let 6 day for the clubs be a free for all. We already know it's a pissing contest of who can put the most deer on a pole. Why limit it to bucks if they want more deer shot? Let them just shoot anything that moves. It's a win win for the agency and clubs. And they're never going to make changes that will negatively impact 6 day hunters. They've said that before. So theres an easy way to benefit them and let their pissing match continue for the 5-10 years they're still hunting. 

The EAB thing I considered to as I mentioned in another post. Either you shoot a buck, you have to shoot another doe first or your second buck has to be APR so you aren't shooting 2 dinks in a bow/gun season which is unnecessary. Unless of course you shoot them during buck week which everything goes. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by chenrossi

[smittty]

7 hours ago, vdep217 said:

I get we don't trust the numbers but it's the data we have.  We kinda did it to our selves when we advocated getting rid of check stations so it's the numbers we live with.

Holy shit do you know many times I’ve heard what you just said at council meetings.   We know it’s not good Science but it’s the only science we have so we are gonna take 35% of you yearly salary. Wake up dude

[Rem Mag]

I didn't make the meetings so I guess I should have limited opinions on what happened.....but 

 

Did anyone ask or talk about straight wall rifle cartridges for deer hunting... almost every other state that was historically a shotgun and or muzzleloader only state have found a way to incorporate the straight wall cartridges as an option also. Am I dreaming that some day we will be able to shoot deer here in NJ with a rifle/pistol cartridge ?

[Rem Mag]

Also the issue of access to all these farms that farmers are bitching about deer on, they should push for a state involved  program similar if not exactly like PA has. It's called Hunter Access Program.  I have interacted with a few of the PA farmers and gained access over the years to hunt some of the properties.  Just because they enroll in the program doesn't automatically grant you access you still need permission. It is mostly understood that large corporate type properties or governmental you don't need to actively seek verbal or written permission but a family farm type property you will need direct permission. All the info is clearly on their game commission website, i really don't understand why NJ can't do something similar 

[Mpdiesel]

14 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

This is the slide I am talking about. In the PDF they released, they didn't give the absolute numbers... but in the presentation last night, they showed in red numbers (where I have the long red circle) the absolute numbers of hunters who harvested more than 3 bucks in those years... and no number in any column was greater than 9. The percentages shown here are the percentages of successful hunters, not all hunters. So when it says 98% of hunters harvested 3 or less - they are saying 98% of successful hunters, not of all hunters. So it is 98% of the 20% of all hunters (I forget the actual percentage, but it was around 20% of all hunters were successful in taking at least 1 buck).

UPDATE: I'm now not sure what those red numbers they showed represented. I thought they want it represented total number of hunters that harvested 4+ bucks, but doing the math, it doesn't make sense. So, just go by the percentages - roughly 1.5% of successful hunters harvested 4+ bucks. Whatever that comes out to be. Assuming 50,000 deer hunters in NJ, that works out to be roughly 150 people killing 4+ bucks... I don't know where they came up with the single-digit numbers). 

I will take a shot at explaining this the way I understood it and break it down into total number of deer killed. If I am wrong on what these percentages mean then I didn't understand it. But the single digit number I thought they said was total number of hunters who took 6 bucks that year.

Using the 2018 percentages because it has the highest percentage (.06%) of hunters who took 6 bucks. They said the most they ever had in one season was 9 hunters take 6 bucks. Did some rough math and that would mean around 75,000 hunters in NJ in 2018.

75,000 x .2= 15,000 (.2 because that's 20 percent in decimal form. 20% because its a nice round number to do this and close to what they said was the successful rate of all hunters who got a buck). Roughly 15,000 different hunters killed a buck in 2018. Percentages broken down into bucks killed in 2018 would be:

11,205 hunters killed 1 buck (15,000 x .7470=11,205) / 11,205 x 1 = 11,205 deer killed

2907 hunters killed 2 bucks (15,000 x .1938= 2907). / 2907 x 2 = 5,814 deer killed

678 hunters killed 3 bucks (15,000 x .0452= 678) / 678 x 3= 2034 deer killed

168 Hunters killed 4 bucks (15,000 x .0112= 168) / 168 x 4= 672 deer killed

34 hunters killed 5 bucks (15,000 x .0023= 34.5) / 34 x 5= 170 deer killed

9 hunters killed 6 bucks (15,000 x .0006= 9) / 9 x 6= 54 deer killed

Total number of bucks killed: 19,949. Percentages are fairly close year to year. So total harvest won't be that much different. So for those that argue 3 bucks a year is all you should be allowed to shoot, pending predators and disease etc, that's roughly 900 bucks make it another year. For those that say 2 bucks is enough then it's roughly 3,000 bucks making it another year.