Flounder regulations suck

[rgw]

Can’t believe the fish I am tossing back for a 17 to 17.99” fish

[hammer4reel]

1 minute ago, rgw said:

Can’t believe the fish I am tossing back for a 17 to 17.99” fish

It’s only going to get worse .

as everyone targets one age class of fish .

and IMO next season it will be tough to find 18-20 fish .

What we gave up for 17-17 1/2” fish was huge .

 

.

[Ducker]

Nobody is going to want to hear this, but here goes.

I'm a spear guy.  I've been diving north NJ regularly since 2004.  When I started, tautog were everywhere, all sizes.  I saw good fluke every dive.  Most dives, I saw small bass.  Rarely did I not see bass, even in late July/August, you just had to wait and dive hard to find one above 28"

This has all changed.  About 5 years ago, I stopped seeing bass.  Yes, I'd see them in early June, but after that, none.  Zippo on the residents at the end of summer.  Granted, I don't live near the coast, so I don't go every day.  Given that, I bet I've shot 4 bass in the last 5 years.  Before that 5 years ago mark, I shot one every trip, even in late summer.  Same with fluke.  It was a rare day I didn't see at least one keeper fluke from 2005 on.  I bet I've shot two decent ones in the last three years.

Legal sized Tautog were everywhere, and it was never a problem to shoot one for supper on every trip.  Now, in my diveable range, I rarely see a male that I don't have to ponder whether or not it is legal.  I went towards the end of April this year on Shrewsbury in pretty good habitat.  Didn't see any that I knew were over 15" clearly enough to shoot.  I think the Potters back in late 20o0s were a part of this decline, but there are other reasons.

Make of it what you will, but my opinion based on 40+ years of underwater observations is that that there are two many people utilizing the same resource and areas.  When I started, there were a few charter boats, mainly the big ones, fishing the areas I frequent.  Now, there are many small boats on the water.  These include a number of six packs taking at least two trips out a day.   Bottom line is that there are wall to wall boats out there, and just about everyone on board can get a limit.  I don't think the Pandemic did us a favor regarding fish stocks.  Week days looked remarkably similar to weekends in 2020 and 2021.  The other issue I'll note is that I have sat while resting up and watched clients on a Six pack catching small 'togs, unhook them and throw them back into the water (almost angrily) without any finesse or care about their survival.

I'm not throwing a rock at NJ folks; it is all up and down the coast, which is why the bass have taken a beating as they migrate.  Everybody wants to make their living on the water, doing the "Salt Life".  Makes sense, and I see their point.  Working outside, doing what you love makes perfect sense.  Why work indoors, or do something you don't like, when you can live the "Salt Life"?

The issue is the resource will not stand that pressure.  Stocks are crashing, and they will do so for some period of time while the Regulators shut it all down.  This has happened before.  Striped bass were caught up hard in the late '60s early '70s in the South, and fishery was completely shut down.  I dove in the south near Chesapeake Bay from 1982 until 1992 without ever seeing a Striped Bass.  Then one day in 1996/1997, I started seeing clouds of small ones.  Then they got bigger, and it got a lot of fun for about 15 years.  Now it has gone bad there as well.

The good news is that in the last couple of years, I am seeing bigger bass then I've seen before, so the regs are probably doing what they intended.  I'm hoping so, because for a Spear guy, the slot limits suck, and most times I come home empty rather than take a flyer.  Not that I think the slots will go change or open up anytime relevant to how much longer I'll still be swimming after them.  I'm still not seeing resident, late July/August bass, but I feel they'll come back in time also.  Again, how long that will take will be a question.

  To Captain Dan's point above, there are certainly very few slot limit bass around come July, and fewer still by August.  Fluke will be the same.  Tautog also.  Sea Bass will be next.   These fish do not have inexhaustible populations.  I don't know what the answer is, as a Commercial Fishing guy, I'm not a great fan of regulations either.  On the other hand, if you don't have them, then we will wind up targeting skates and dogfish.  I do believe that.

 

[hammer4reel]

6 minutes ago, Ducker said:

Nobody is going to want to hear this, but here goes.

I'm a spear guy.  I've been diving north NJ regularly since 2004.  When I started, tautog were everywhere, all sizes.  I saw good fluke every dive.  Most dives, I saw small bass.  Rarely did I not see bass, even in late July/August, you just had to wait and dive hard to find one above 28"

This has all changed.  About 5 years ago, I stopped seeing bass.  Yes, I'd see them in early June, but after that, none.  Zippo on the residents at the end of summer.  Granted, I don't live near the coast, so I don't go every day.  Given that, I bet I've shot 4 bass in the last 5 years.  Before that 5 years ago mark, I shot one every trip, even in late summer.  Same with fluke.  It was a rare day I didn't see at least one keeper fluke from 2005 on.  I bet I've shot two decent ones in the last three years.

Legal sized Tautog were everywhere, and it was never a problem to shoot one for supper on every trip.  Now, in my diveable range, I rarely see a male that I don't have to ponder whether or not it is legal.  I went towards the end of April this year on Shrewsbury in pretty good habitat.  Didn't see any that I knew were over 15" clearly enough to shoot.  I think the Potters back in late 20o0s were a part of this decline, but there are other reasons.

Make of it what you will, but my opinion based on 40+ years of underwater observations is that that there are two many people utilizing the same resource and areas.  When I started, there were a few charter boats, mainly the big ones, fishing the areas I frequent.  Now, there are many small boats on the water.  These include a number of six packs taking at least two trips out a day.   Bottom line is that there are wall to wall boats out there, and just about everyone on board can get a limit.  I don't think the Pandemic did us a favor regarding fish stocks.  Week days looked remarkably similar to weekends in 2020 and 2021.  The other issue I'll note is that I have sat while resting up and watched clients on a Six pack catching small 'togs, unhook them and throw them back into the water (almost angrily) without any finesse or care about their survival.

I'm not throwing a rock at NJ folks; it is all up and down the coast, which is why the bass have taken a beating as they migrate.  Everybody wants to make their living on the water, doing the "Salt Life".  Makes sense, and I see their point.  Working outside, doing what you love makes perfect sense.  Why work indoors, or do something you don't like, when you can live the "Salt Life"?

The issue is the resource will not stand that pressure.  Stocks are crashing, and they will do so for some period of time while the Regulators shut it all down.  This has happened before.  Striped bass were caught up hard in the late '60s early '70s in the South, and fishery was completely shut down.  I dove in the south near Chesapeake Bay from 1982 until 1992 without ever seeing a Striped Bass.  Then one day in 1996/1997, I started seeing clouds of small ones.  Then they got bigger, and it got a lot of fun for about 15 years.  Now it has gone bad there as well.

The good news is that in the last couple of years, I am seeing bigger bass then I've seen before, so the regs are probably doing what they intended.  I'm hoping so, because for a Spear guy, the slot limits suck, and most times I come home empty rather than take a flyer.  Not that I think the slots will go change or open up anytime relevant to how much longer I'll still be swimming after them.  I'm still not seeing resident, late July/August bass, but I feel they'll come back in time also.  Again, how long that will take will be a question.

  To Captain Dan's point above, there are certainly very few slot limit bass around come July, and fewer still by August.  Fluke will be the same.  Tautog also.  Sea Bass will be next.   These fish do not have inexhaustible populations.  I don't know what the answer is, as a Commercial Fishing guy, I'm not a great fan of regulations either.  On the other hand, if you don't have them, then we will wind up targeting skates and dogfish.  I do believe that.

 

No doubt your seeing the real changes . Stripers coming from the Chesapeake stocks are really low . Va destroyed that fishery by killing WAY too many stripers for 5 months every winter . But seems that there are way less fish coming from the Delaware also .

once all these fish move east of Long Island all the pressure will be in the Hudson strain , where it used to be all 3 stocks sharing the load .

 

blackfish is the new cool fish .

used to be only hardcore anglers chasing them from November thru January .

With the advent of spot lock , and 3 d charts anyone can put a boat on a 6’ piece .

With pressure from August until February and then again in April , that fishery has drastically changed .

luckily many of those months are catch and release . But still pressured all the same .

 

fluke needed a smaller size limit to have more male fish be taken , but all the pressure is mostly now in just 3 year old fish .

with everyone targeting that size fish , it won’t take long to crush that portion of the stocks .

spreading out the catch over the 12 years available would have given more benifit .

some guys fish were there are many small fish , others fished where the normal catch was much larger .

So much more varied year stocks-would  have gad pressure instead of one taking 66% of it.

 

.

Way more people fishing , most have good tackle .

super electronics that shorten the learning curve quickly .

.

 

[hunterbob1]

2 hours ago, rgw said:

Can’t believe the fish I am tossing back for a 17 to 17.99” fish

IMG_3993.MOV

I remember when it was 14 then 15 then 16..

[Mallard1100]

2 hours ago, Ducker said:

Nobody is going to want to hear this, but here goes.

I'm a spear guy.  I've been diving north NJ regularly since 2004.  When I started, tautog were everywhere, all sizes.  I saw good fluke every dive.  Most dives, I saw small bass.  Rarely did I not see bass, even in late July/August, you just had to wait and dive hard to find one above 28"

This has all changed.  About 5 years ago, I stopped seeing bass.  Yes, I'd see them in early June, but after that, none.  Zippo on the residents at the end of summer.  Granted, I don't live near the coast, so I don't go every day.  Given that, I bet I've shot 4 bass in the last 5 years.  Before that 5 years ago mark, I shot one every trip, even in late summer.  Same with fluke.  It was a rare day I didn't see at least one keeper fluke from 2005 on.  I bet I've shot two decent ones in the last three years.

Legal sized Tautog were everywhere, and it was never a problem to shoot one for supper on every trip.  Now, in my diveable range, I rarely see a male that I don't have to ponder whether or not it is legal.  I went towards the end of April this year on Shrewsbury in pretty good habitat.  Didn't see any that I knew were over 15" clearly enough to shoot.  I think the Potters back in late 20o0s were a part of this decline, but there are other reasons.

Make of it what you will, but my opinion based on 40+ years of underwater observations is that that there are two many people utilizing the same resource and areas.  When I started, there were a few charter boats, mainly the big ones, fishing the areas I frequent.  Now, there are many small boats on the water.  These include a number of six packs taking at least two trips out a day.   Bottom line is that there are wall to wall boats out there, and just about everyone on board can get a limit.  I don't think the Pandemic did us a favor regarding fish stocks.  Week days looked remarkably similar to weekends in 2020 and 2021.  The other issue I'll note is that I have sat while resting up and watched clients on a Six pack catching small 'togs, unhook them and throw them back into the water (almost angrily) without any finesse or care about their survival.

I'm not throwing a rock at NJ folks; it is all up and down the coast, which is why the bass have taken a beating as they migrate.  Everybody wants to make their living on the water, doing the "Salt Life".  Makes sense, and I see their point.  Working outside, doing what you love makes perfect sense.  Why work indoors, or do something you don't like, when you can live the "Salt Life"?

The issue is the resource will not stand that pressure.  Stocks are crashing, and they will do so for some period of time while the Regulators shut it all down.  This has happened before.  Striped bass were caught up hard in the late '60s early '70s in the South, and fishery was completely shut down.  I dove in the south near Chesapeake Bay from 1982 until 1992 without ever seeing a Striped Bass.  Then one day in 1996/1997, I started seeing clouds of small ones.  Then they got bigger, and it got a lot of fun for about 15 years.  Now it has gone bad there as well.

The good news is that in the last couple of years, I am seeing bigger bass then I've seen before, so the regs are probably doing what they intended.  I'm hoping so, because for a Spear guy, the slot limits suck, and most times I come home empty rather than take a flyer.  Not that I think the slots will go change or open up anytime relevant to how much longer I'll still be swimming after them.  I'm still not seeing resident, late July/August bass, but I feel they'll come back in time also.  Again, how long that will take will be a question.

  To Captain Dan's point above, there are certainly very few slot limit bass around come July, and fewer still by August.  Fluke will be the same.  Tautog also.  Sea Bass will be next.   These fish do not have inexhaustible populations.  I don't know what the answer is, as a Commercial Fishing guy, I'm not a great fan of regulations either.  On the other hand, if you don't have them, then we will wind up targeting skates and dogfish.  I do believe that.

 

 Very interesting point of view and observation. Much of what I agree with. The pressure has been extreme. Charters have gone through the roof and still to this day claim that “ rod and reel fisherman are not the problem nor will they destroy a fish population”.  It is complete bs and  Is becoming more and more exploited to live the “salt life” like you said. They are all literally fishing themselves out of a job to live this life. It is not the rec guy that goes out once a week and keeps 1, 2, or 3 bass for the boat. It’s the charters that are sailing am and pm trips as fast as they can book them. Now I’m seeing guys online not even respecting these fish and torpedo throwing them like tuna or Albies into the water!? When did that become a thing? ! 

[Buck154]

Nice  catch. Still not a bad pile of filets.