Getting The Itch To Purchase a Xbow

[Lunatic]

Lunatic your focusing on the nock end. You need to focus on the broadhead.

Remember also the camera isnt on the bow .so some angles will change in relation to the shooter

Ok, no problem, there is no reason to continue.

[JHbowhunter]

Lunatic- I don't think those Videos are Dan shooting?   Anyway if you freeze frame the slo-mo, and look where lighted nock is sitting, and burn that spot into your head, and reverse and stand the doe back up, looks like shot was true to me.    I also noticed in that slo-mo video, that the doe seemingly reacted at the exact same time sound entered the video... In other words, by the time sound reached video cam, deer was already taking the dive, which is WAY before the arrow got there...    

 

FOLKS - sound travels 1,130 FPS.      Versus 360FPS?   I don't care how you slice it, 1/6 of a second or 1/10 of a second.  1/10 of a second is an ETERNITY when it comes to a deer's reaction to noise or movement... 

 

At 360 FPS, a bolt will travel 36 feet in 1/10 of a second. (12 yards)

 

Speed of sound will travel 113 feet in that same 1/10 of a second. (about 38 yards)

 

What are we debating again? I hope its not that it isn't possible an alert deer can out-duck a bolt at 60 feet (20 yards).   

All that being said, I can think of maybe 3-4 times in my entire 33 years of bowhunting that a deer ducked my arrow.   But it can and will happen under the right circumstances and a cross-bow is not impervious.  (Again - simple math, as I demonstrated).   As I still lament what looked like a perfect hit on my Ohio 10 point that resulted in a high lung entrance and very grueling recovery, I surmise its very possible that buck did start his duck, because he was definitely hyper-alert and knew something was up. 

 

One thing I have learned in my advanced age and experience is this " just because something never happened to me, doesn't mean it can't ever happen".  So I keep an open mind and absorb experience from others....  Never stop learning, never close your mind. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by JHbowhunter

[Haskell_Hunter]

You also need to consider that deer have tiny brains that only really think about three things:

1. Eat
2. Breed
3. Avoid danger

They don't need to think about much more than that for their survival.  When a deer hears a loud noise, it doesn't stop like we would to determine what it is.  They drop their bodies to tense up their leg muscles to jump and run.  Their brains don't think about the sound, they react to it quickly in the manner I described.  They need to do this instinctively for their survival, and they do.  When a loud sound reaches a deer's ears, they all do exactly the same thing as every other deer.  We've all seen this.  If the distance from a crossbow shooter is large, the deer may have a chance to react instinctively to the sound, which will reach them before the arrow, and in a way to make the arrow miss or not hit a vital.

 

Since I am a nerd, I look at this as a physics problem.  Speed of the bolt and the speed of sound are both racing toward the deer.  The speed of sound will increase the distance between the bolt and the sound wave as the distance to the target increases.  So a close shot does not give the deer time to react as quickly or significantly as a longer shot would.  When the sound reaches the deer's ears, that information travels at the speed of electricity to the deer's brain, and from there at the speed of electricity to their muscles to react.  The speed of electricity is faster than the speed of sound, so the reaction is nearly instantaneous.

 

Looking at it academically demonstrates that it is possible for a deer to react appropriately to this situation.  However, there is no such thing as ideal academic conditions anywhere in the world, and there are countless other variables to take into consideration for each individual shot on a deer.  But it is entirely plausible.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Haskell_Hunter

[hammer4reel]

Jack as you posted that's not my video.

Just an example . Lunatic at this point instead of looking at what can happen .your trying to disprove it .

 

At this point of my hunting career I have seen alot.

Shot well over a few hundred deer with all kinds of archery equipment.

As well as tracked a few hundred more for friends I hunt with .

Luckily very few have moved when I have taken a shot .

The few that did made moves that were unbelievable.

One changed distances I shoot to contain things within 40 yards.

Shot a buck working a scrape at 58 yards walking right to left.

On the shot I hit him spinning around going left to right as he had spun ,180 while the arrow made his way to him.

 

Things happen we can never explain

[dlist777]

I think there are a couple different conversations going on here.  I just want to try to make my point one last time.  

 

Deer can definitely duck an arrow (crossbow, compound, or traditional).  I don't doubt that. 

 

My point is that when the shot is made, there are two basic things created that the deer can detect:  Movement & Sound.  The movement comes from (shouldering the crossbow or drawing the bow and then the string moving, and then the arrow moving).  All of these things travel at the speed of light (186k miles per hour).  The sound travels at 1100 feet per second (which is like 750 miles per hour).  We know deer can see 300-330 degrees and can detect movement even when they are feeding.  So, we know that the information travelling at the speed of light (movement) gets to them before the information travelling at the speed of sound.  So, it seems more likely that the deer are reacting to movement and not sound.  

 

What this means to me is that I have focus much more on: (1) keeping my shots as close as I can; (2) minimizing movement.  I don't worry about how loud my bow is.   

 

I guess if you took an ass-on shot on a deer and it still jumped the string, you could prove it was the sound.  But, hopefully, no one will do that experiment.  

Edited November 20, 2017 by dlist777

[Buckeyes11]

If u haven’t shot over a deer’s back. You haven’t been hunting long enough. They absolutely jump the string. I read before that an arrow would have to be going over 800fps at 20 yds for a deer not to react

[_X7]

I read somewhere that distance from the sound increases the odds that a deer won't jump the string. In other words the farther the shot the less chances they will jump.

[John B]

Something not yet considered, other background noise. This time of year, dead dry leaves, light wind, squirrel and chipmunks run in the leaves, birds chirping, neighbor leaf blower, ect. Unless it's dead slient outside, I just can't see a deer picking out the sound of an arrow, bolt or shot noise as the noise to react to or notice. Of all the factors to pick a crossbow on, noise would be my last thing considered.

[BenedictGomez]

I have never experienced a deer jumping the string in the field.  It doesn't seem possible at 20-30 yards with a crossbow shooting near 400 FPS.  But, I have seen some videos on the internet where it sure looks like the deer jumped.  The math just doesn't seem possible.  

 

At 30 yards, the sound will arrive at 0.08 seconds.  At 400 FPS, the arrow will arrive at 0.225 seconds.  That gives the deer 0.145 seconds (roughly 1/7 of second) to not only react (which cant be instantaneous), but move enough to make a difference.  It just doesn't seem possible.  

 

What is possible is the human eye cant detect the absurdly small time lapse & mis-perceives the deer's movement as jumping the string.  The first picture Dan posted seems to be a good demonstration of that.

 

It's obvious deer will move upon being startled.   It's also obvious people will sometimes make less than ideal (i.e. bad) shots. 

 

But it's difficult for the human brain to marry & adjudicate either of those things, let alone both of those things simultaneously given how fast they occur, and I think that results in sometimes people thinking the deer "jumped the string", when it really didn't.

Edited November 20, 2017 by BenedictGomez

[BenedictGomez]

 Of all the factors to pick a crossbow on, noise would be my last thing considered.

 

I agree it's a very strange argument.  I own one of what is supposedly a louder crossbow, and even enclosed in a blind it's not that loud.   I sure don't need to wear electronic earmuffs in the blind like I do during shotgun season.

[Farmshine]

Well I’m gona blame shooting over a ten pointer in 2012 on this phenomena, thank you. I can sleep better now. Lol.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 20, 2017 by Farmshine

[hammer4reel]

Something not yet considered, other background noise. This time of year, dead dry leaves, light wind, squirrel and chipmunks run in the leaves, birds chirping, neighbor leaf blower, ect. Unless it's dead slient outside, I just can't see a deer picking out the sound of an arrow, bolt or shot noise as the noise to react to or notice. Of all the factors to pick a crossbow on, noise would be my last thing considered.

As i posted before stand in a safe area and have someone shoot a broadhead arrow into a target past you.

If you still dont think a deer can hear that arrow coming, make an appt for a hearing aid

[JerseyJaysTaxidermy]

More variables to consider...

 

The bow shoots 350fps.. that's peak speed

 

Arrow needs to spend some feet accelerating and then once peaked it will slow down..

 

So at 20 yards it's not traveling 350fps the whole distsnce. I'm not sure exactly bit could only be that speed for the 8-10 yard distance and significantly slower 0-8 as well as 10-20 yards..

 

Also, I think the deer duck the sound of the string striking the rubber stops...as that's the loudest and soonest noise (other than day a release opening, string ripping through the air, drop away rest falling, etc.- but not with a xbow)

 

A deer can flinch very fast.. I'm a human and I bet I can flinch fast enough..

 

I know a good way to test it..

 

Have someone stand way off to the side and maybe 60 yards over to the left of s target..shoot at a target that swings on impact.. film perpendicular from shooter and see how far a person can drop and have the target in the background..

I'll do it for ya one day..

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[John B]

I don't doubt an arrow in flight makes a sound. Some broadheads might make more noise than others. With all the background noise of dead leaves blowing in the breeze and small critters rusting leaves, and tree branches creaking and so on, how is a deer going to pick out the sound of the arrow or bow shot, and realise it's danger and react to it while ignoring all other sounds that are a normal part of it's environment? The few times in the past when I shot over a deer due to my error, the deer stood frozen and looked around after the arrow sailed over head and hit the ground. I don't see sound being an issue with NJ deer, just like minor human scent is part of their environment. Maybe a super buck that has been shot at and missed before might have learned that sound as danger, and if no other sounds to blend in. If a deer ever dodges my shot, I will just say, it was not in the grand scheme of things for that deer to be killed by an arrow.

[hammer4reel]

John why do we react to a bug whrn its flying towards our face or around our head Instantly.

Its because the sound isnt supposed to be there at thst moment and we naturally know it, and react to it