Getting The Itch To Purchase a Xbow

[dlist777]

I have never experienced a deer jumping the string in the field.  It doesn't seem possible at 20-30 yards with a crossbow shooting near 400 FPS.  But, I have seen some videos on the internet where it sure looks like the deer jumped.  The math just doesn't seem possible.  

 

At 30 yards, the sound will arrive at 0.08 seconds.  At 400 FPS, the arrow will arrive at 0.225 seconds.  That gives the deer 0.145 seconds (roughly 1/7 of second) to not only react (which cant be instantaneous), but move enough to make a difference.  It just doesn't seem possible.  

 

But I wonder if they are really jumping at the sound or the movement?  Maybe they see some movement right before the shot.  The speed of light is essentially instantaneous at the these distances so it would give them more time to react before the arrow arrives.  I think that's what we're seeing...an alert deer jumping because of some movement prior to the shot.  

[JHbowhunter]

hyper alert deer can do things we would not think possible.    If you hunt long enough, research long enough you will learn just about anything is possible.   To say "it's not possible" is just closing your mind.  It's akin to saying 'well my Rage never opened in flight or never deflected or never failed to open - so because it never happened to me yet, that means it never will". 

 

It's clear to me that the footage Dan provided, the deer is already reacting to something before the bolt got to him.  Sound of shot?  Whistling BH?  Whether or not the shooter was aiming a little high is irrelevant to the argument, because the footage shows the deer is in state of reaction and is starting his dip before hauling ass out of there. 

 

I don't see the point in arguing this for the sake of arguing.  Hunters been killing stuff with super slow bows for centuries, and while speed does indeed provide advantage in this arena, a crossbow is not a 7mm Mag.  

 

Move on!

[hammer4reel]

Stand along a garage in a safe spot. Have someone shoot into a target along side it.

You will hear the bolt or arrow coming well before it hits the target.

And our senses are nothing compared to a mature deer.

 

Think about when a bug comes zipping towards your face how quick your hand comes up etc

[hammer4reel]

Slow motion bow shot example

 

[Lunatic]

Well all i can say is you have alot to learn before gaing enough knowledge to make reasonable judgements.

There are countless hours of video showing how fsr deer can move on a shot, sometimes ducking , sometimes moving forward etc.

When we take a shot we can only hope they dont move during it.

But thinking they cant move quick enough IMO shows you havent been doing this very long

 

That's all good and we all learn as we go, no shame in it.

all I am saying to you is this:

No way this deer was missed because it ducked. The picture is taken after the arrow was in the ground already, please note the arrow is not in the picture, and sure enough deer eventually reacted. It is also clear form this picture this deer, even if the timing was good - and its not, did not even come close to move enough down to be the reason for the miss. 

 

Is it possible for the deer to do it? I guess anything is possible. However, my personal experience tells me at 22 yards with a 360 FPS no way. This is all I have, 21 deer with a crossbow with most shots over 30 yards and several 40 and even 50.

 

Don't take this personal, we are just talking, its all good.

[hammer4reel]

Some more

 

[Lunatic]

hyper alert deer can do things we would not think possible.    If you hunt long enough, research long enough you will learn just about anything is possible.   To say "it's not possible" is just closing your mind.  It's akin to saying 'well my Rage never opened in flight or never deflected or never failed to open - so because it never happened to me yet, that means it never will". 

 

It's clear to me that the footage Dan provided, the deer is already reacting to something before the bolt got to him.  Sound of shot?  Whistling BH?  Whether or not the shooter was aiming a little high is irrelevant to the argument, because the footage shows the deer is in state of reaction and is starting his dip before hauling ass out of there. 

 

I don't see the point in arguing this for the sake of arguing.  Hunters been killing stuff with super slow bows for centuries, and while speed does indeed provide advantage in this arena, a crossbow is not a 7mm Mag.  

 

Move on!

 

We are discussing, not arguing

You are looking at this deer reaction after the arrow already hit the ground. There is no arrow in the pic.

[hammer4reel]

That's all good and we all learn as we go, no shame in it.

all I am saying to you is this:

No way this deer was missed because it ducked. The picture is taken after the arrow was in the ground already, please note the arrow is not in the picture, and sure enough deer eventually reacted. It is also clear form this picture this deer, even if the timing was good - and its not, did not even come close to move enough down to be the reason for the miss. 

 

Is it possible for the deer to do it? I guess anything is possible. However, my personal experience tells me at 22 yards with a 360 FPS no way. This is all I have, 21 deer with a crossbow with most shots over 30 yards and several 40 and even 50.

 

Don't take this personal, we are just talking, its all good.

The bolt is in the picture, its creating the motion line during the shutter exposer

[dlist777]

A deer can duck an arrow for sure.  I'm just saying I don't think it's the sound that's causing it.  So, I don't think a loud crossbow makes a difference (I think that's how this whole discussion got started).  I think they see movement: either the shooter or the actual string moving or arrow.  

[JHbowhunter]

A deer can duck an arrow for sure.  I'm just saying I don't think it's the sound that's causing it.  So, I don't think a loud crossbow makes a difference (I think that's how this whole discussion got started).  I think they see movement: either the shooter or the actual string moving or arrow.  

 

They definitely react to both.  Sometimes its one or the other, sometimes its both.  A good experienced hunter recognizes all possibilities and recognizes that you can't ever know it all or have seen it all.  I learn something with almost every hunt and definitely learn something from every kill, from the shot to the recovery, to how they reacted before the shot, after the shot, how they bled, how far did they go, etc, etc, etc

[Haskell_Hunter]

This is a crossbow shot.  I don't know the distance, which is important, but look at where the arrow is when it enters the frame and how far this buck drops.  I was amazed.  The deer is responding the sound and drops pretty far before the bolt reaches it.  It continued to drop after it was struck.  If the shooter was a little further back, it may have made a difference.

 

[dlist777]

They definitely react to both.  Sometimes its one or the other, sometimes its both.  A good experienced hunter recognizes all possibilities and recognizes that you can't ever know it all or have seen it all.  I learn something with almost every hunt and definitely learn something from every kill, from the shot to the recovery, to how they reacted before the shot, after the shot, how they bled, how far did they go, etc, etc, etc

 

There is no way you can KNOW what they are reacting to.  Bow is drawn, release is triggered, string moves, sound begins to travel, arrow begins to move, deer ducks.  You don't know which of those things that happened before the deer ducked caused it to duck.  The least likely of those is the sound of the bow.  But, I guess anything is possible.  

[Lunatic]

Slow motion bow shot example

 

 

 

I think something good will come out of this conversation. Again nothing personal but looking at this last video, it is clear you are shooting way too high and deer's ducking has zero to do with the miss. Look at the three consecutive frames from your video.

The deer does not move until the arrow is in the picture above it, and the arrow is way higher than it should be. This is not even close so you may want to look at it carefully and objectively to correct whatever its going on because it is not deer moving on you. 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Lunatic

[06roadking]

Good conversation here. Lots of good points. I have read somewhere that a whitetail has like 130 degrees of peripheral vision. Maybe the deer sees the arrow start to launch in their peripheral vision. I’m not sure what it is but I do know they duck and if I had their reaction time I’d be an nhl goalie!

[hammer4reel]

Lunatic your focusing on the nock end. You need to focus on the broadhead.

Remember also the camera isnt on the bow .so some angles will change in relation to the shooter