We may be able to carry concealed in NJ soon...

[DJ0808]

Just want to say Thank You to @Bucndoe for answering our questions and providing guidance on where to get more information.

I've had carry permits in other states that I was stationed while in the military, but for NJ it never seemed like I would be able to until Thursday's ruling.

[Livesintrees]

9 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

This is exactly why I am not rushing to fill out my application. I've been waiting for this decision and have been cheering it on. That doesn't mean I ever intended, myself, to get a carry permit. One day I'm sure I will, just to have it. But will I actually carry? Probably not. Certainly not all the time. Perhaps only on certain occasions when I go into what I think is an unsafe area... it's nice to have that choice though. But like you say, God-forbid we actually have to pull the trigger. Not just the legal ramifications - you literally need to be prepared to kill a person. That's a lot different than killing a turkey. The moral implications alone should be enough to make one pause and think hard.

Good points. However god forbid you ever have to pull the trigger, that means your life was in danger. I intend to go home to my family every day. The person who wants to take my life, doesn’t care about their own. 

[thefirstndsecond]

14 hours ago, BHC said:

Please take this with a grain of salt. When I was an officer I carried off duty, and GOD FORBID I shot someone whether they survived or not and it was 110% justified I could still be sued in civil court with a 50/50 chance of losing, and with losing I could lose everything I earned, same as if I worked and it could happen now that I'm a civilian. The difference between the time I worked and now, my union would pay for my legal defense, now I would have to pay for it, and the stress of possibly losing everything I earned would be off the charts. I'm not sure how many people here drew a weapon on a person, I did my second year on the job, and I wasn't nervous at all until we had the suspect cuffed and then it set in, that I could have taken a person's life.....So I understand that many want to carry for self-protection and I fully support and respect that of you, but also don't think it's all that and a bag of chips, it comes with a great deal of responsibility  

This is why we had HB 40 get signed in PA, stand your ground / castle doctrine.

 

If you are involved in a justified shooting and found by the court to be justified, they can not come after you in civil court. 

 

NJ has a long way to go and you guys will have to fight and educate yourself to real LAW. Not what the cops say or what some guys says but statute. 

There will have to be gun attorneys in NJ.

 I wonder if any of you have ever taken my advice and looked through PAFOA.org and read some of the good discussions.  Not the PAOOFA ONES but the good discussions.

[thefirstndsecond]

12 hours ago, Devil Horns said:

I was wondering the same. I looked up NJAC 13:54-2.4(b). See below  

 

13:54-2.4 Application for a permit to carry a handgun
(a) Every person applying for a permit to carry a handgun shall furnish such information and particulars as set forth in the application form designated SP 642. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath and shall be endorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least three years preceding the date of application, and who shall also certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior. Applications can be obtained at police departments and State Police stations.
(b) Each applicant shall demonstrate a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns by indicating in the space provided therefor on the application form, and on any sworn attachments thereto, any relevant information. Thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns may be evidenced by:
1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms training approved by the Police Training Commission as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j;
2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor;
3. Completion of a course or test in the safe handling of a handgun administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor; or
4. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a certified instructor of a police academy, a certified instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified instructor.
(c) Where available, the information in (b) above shall be accompanied and validated by certifications of the appropriate instructor(s). In the absence of, or in addition to (b)1 through 4 above, the applicant shall provide any other available and accurate information which may evidence his or her proficiency in the safe handling and use of firearms, including most recent handgun qualification scores and whether he or she utilized the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry, courses attended in the safe handling and use of firearms, and extent of knowledge, however gained, of this State's laws pertaining to the use of force in the defense of person and property.

This type of testing probably will not stand. These requirements seem restrictive and again jumping through hoops for the state.

Many other states say if you have completed a live fire test (you know like the one for hunting license)

Or a test about the laws like the Utah non resident then you  can apply.

 

This seems the state still controls everything for the test through the state police.

I would be careful being the first and be ready to sue.

You may get a denial then have to sue and go back to court.

After all, what other rights do you have to get approval from the state to exercise.

As far as cost, they must keep it reasonable again because of the average citizen. Dont forget if they raise the cost it then becomes racist and will lose in court.

[Bucndoe]

10 minutes ago, thefirstndsecond said:

This type of testing probably will not stand. These requirements seem restrictive and again jumping through hoops for the state.

Many other states say if you have completed a live fire test (you know like the one for hunting license)

Or a test about the laws like the Utah non resident then you  can apply.

 

This seems the state still controls everything for the test through the state police.

I would be careful being the first and be ready to sue.

You may get a denial then have to sue and go back to court.

After all, what other rights do you have to get approval from the state to exercise.

As far as cost, they must keep it reasonable again because of the average citizen. Dont forget if they raise the cost it then becomes racist and will lose in court.

The only thing that is effected in NJ statute for Carry Permits by the Supreme Court ruling is the "justifiable need" requirement. There were more carry permits issued in the last few years in NJ that were known. It is not an advertised fact,  firearm permit information is confidential and not subject to OPRA Requests. The permitting process will remain as it as according to the recent Directive issued by the NJ Attorney General

[thefirstndsecond]

Just now, Bucndoe said:

The only thing that is effected in NJ statute for Carry Permits by the Supreme Court ruling is the "justifiable need" requirement. There were more carry permits issued in the last few years in NJ that were known. It is not an advertised fact,  firearm permit information is confidential and not subject to OPRA Requests. The permitting process will remain as it as according to the recent Directive issued by the NJ Attorney General

Once the general population gets to carry and those applying get involved there will be litigation and justified litigation. 

Compare the laws in NJ against other shall issues states. NJ is not there.

The 2 part process was also discussed.  They switched justifiable need with a test or course. The test or course will change from litigation. 

You'll see.

And if you trust the NJ AG at all, I got ocean front in AZ for sale.

 

But again.... I could absolutely be wrong, but given NJ's track record.. 

[Bucndoe]

11 minutes ago, thefirstndsecond said:

Once the general population gets to carry and those applying get involved there will be litigation and justified litigation. 

Compare the laws in NJ against other shall issues states. NJ is not there.

The 2 part process was also discussed.  They switched justifiable need with a test or course. The test or course will change from litigation. 

You'll see.

And if you trust the NJ AG at all, I got ocean front in AZ for sale.

 

But again.... I could absolutely be wrong, but given NJ's track record.. 

I am speaking solely about the current NJ Statutes and the permitting process facts. I am not guessing,  I have not offered any opinion. I am not answering an after this, because of that this scenario. I said nothing about trusting the AG, he calls the shots and he issued a directive right away. He cannot make statute, he can only enforce.

If they are going to change the permitting process it must be done by statute. Since that likely won't happen overnight, the permitting process absent the "justifiable need" is what is in place right now. The AG is anticipating a flooding of applications and offering guidance to the law enforcement community of how to process them. Most agencies have no experience in processing them at all 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Bucndoe

[smittty]

I’m just gonna sit tight and see how it plays out before I put in for a permit. Last thing I need is to be denied. I trust no one 

[hostak126]

I think the first and smart step would begin get the paperwork going minus any dates and talk to your references. Most importantly get the qualification out of the way in the time being.

[njdoxie]

I’m going to apply, even though I may not carry, I just want the option.
My main concern is the law around shooting someone. Can someone point me to a legal document, like something from Evan Nappen, outlining when it’s justifiable to shoot someone? Would be nice if there were examples of situations where it’s ok, and where it’s not ok.
I have zero moral qualms about killing someone who threatens the life of me or my family.


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[jumpthestring]

Who need's to carry  ?  My hands are lethal Weapon's.

[Greg]

Like everyone else I would like to get my permit also. Will I use it? Mostly not. Taking a walk with the dog in the woods, sure. Taking the wife out hunting while I am not, sure. Running into acme for dinner supplies, no. 

You should/better absolutely understand ROE, rules of engagement. Some one driving away in your car or walking through your yard at 3am checking out your shed is not a reason to open fire.

Biggest defense against threat is don't get into that environment to begin with if at all possible. You know a place is bad news, don't go there. 

First thing I want to do is get a new pistol with an actual safety, submitting purchase form and shopping for one now. Then I will sign up for a firearms course. After those steps then put in for the permit.

[LittleM]

Last time I was in MT, I got my DL and purchased a pistol.  Once I picked out what I wanted, the whole process took 10 minutes, with NICS about two minutes on the computer and it was free.  Walk out able to open or conceal carry.  The way it should be. Sucks when I come back to NJ I have to leave it there.

I did not buy it nor will I carry it with the intent for people protection.  It was for hiking and bear / moose / lion protection. 

With the amount of black bears in NJ, it would be nice to have that option...

 

[thefirstndsecond]

Just throwing this out there - did you get a NJ weed card? How will that work for a carry permit? Ability to purchase a firearm? The feds still say no bang and bong.

[njdoxie]

Like everyone else I would like to get my permit also. Will I use it? Mostly not. Taking a walk with the dog in the woods, sure. Taking the wife out hunting while I am not, sure. Running into acme for dinner supplies, no. 
You should/better absolutely understand ROE, rules of engagement. Some one driving away in your car or walking through your yard at 3am checking out your shed is not a reason to open fire.
Biggest defense against threat is don't get into that environment to begin with if at all possible. You know a place is bad news, don't go there. 
First thing I want to do is get a new pistol with an actual safety, submitting purchase form and shopping for one now. Then I will sign up for a firearms course. After those steps then put in for the permit.

So what are the ROE????
Evan Nappen, are you on here? (he’s a lawyer who takes out a full page add in the cherry ridge newsletter, and he’s written a book on NJ gun law)
I belong to the Cherry Ridge gun range, and they put out a newsletter, hopefully one comes out soon, with everything to think about including ROE.


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