FYI....harvest down 38.5% up to permit archery season

[BHC]

1 hour ago, archer36 said:

"Poor excuses". Wanting venison because it's healthy and delicious, a Farmer wanting to keep population down are "poor excuses? Who made you the authority on what is the proper reason to hunt? What's your "excuse" to hunt?

first off read what I wrote then understand what I wrote I said "IT'S MY OPINION" so it's not authority 2 or 3 deer is more then enough to eat, and no one eats it daily, and the average person doesn't have the means to store 10 plus deer unless they are doing the wrong thing and selling the meat....Farmers have no idea how many deer are roaming around, they see one it's too many....any farmer in NJ that says they are poor are BSing, to own land in NJ you have to have money, plus they save alot more on taxes then the average person plus tax exempt on many other things....so when a hunter says I kill 10 or more deer per year, yeah they aren't hunting they are KILLINING for the enjoyment of KILLING and when they say my family eats everyday, Farmer needs them killed, family/friends want venison they are poor excuses just to kill....In my 41 years of hunting I killed 3 deer in one year in N,J donated one to a benefit dinner .....I'm not greedy, I'm happy to I'm able to hunt and getting a deer is icing on the cake, and even with that I limit myself to bucks only, last bald head I got was I believe was 2012, only reason I refuse to kill bald heads is the fact I don't see large numbers of deer and I that's OK with me, that doe I let go could be the the doe to draw and nice buck for me.....You hunt the way you want as I hunt the way I hunt

[Merkel]

5 hours ago, archer36 said:

Is it in print yet? Never mind I see it now. When comparing only to one year, it's not conclusive. I would like to see it against the last 10 years. 

There is no doubt that EHD has contributed to a lower kill. But it's for many reasons. Not just a lack of deer which is a major factor. Also, I would like to see a zone by zone comparison. This would give you a better picture of whether it is a Statewide problem or localized. Manage the herd with a scalpel, not an axe.

No one would argue with severe cut backs in bag limits going forward if your zone experienced a 50 percent kill reduction. Farmers will complain but they are never satisfied and you can't blame them. Even a few deer can cause lots of damage to certain crops and trees.

Agreed. Need data by zone and over a longer period to make meaningful assessment.  I think last year was odd. As I recall the overall harvest was up 21%.  people spent more time in the woods because of CV / not working or WFH.  
 

I like the long season for flexibility but bag limit reduction should be considered in certain zones. Also think degradation permits should be overhauled.  Maybe the State should think about a program that connects farmers with hunters to control the population.  

[archer36]

12 minutes ago, BHC said:

first off read what I wrote then understand what I wrote I said "IT'S MY OPINION" so it's not authority 2 or 3 deer is more then enough to eat, and no one eats it daily, and the average person doesn't have the means to store 10 plus deer unless they are doing the wrong thing and selling the meat....Farmers have no idea how many deer are roaming around, they see one it's too many....any farmer in NJ that says they are poor are BSing, to own land in NJ you have to have money, plus they save alot more on taxes then the average person plus tax exempt on many other things....so when a hunter says I kill 10 or more deer per year, yeah they aren't hunting they are KILLINING for the enjoyment of KILLING and when they say my family eats everyday, Farmer needs them killed, family/friends want venison they are poor excuses just to kill....In my 41 years of hunting I killed 3 deer in one year in N,J donated one to a benefit dinner .....I'm not greedy, I'm happy to I'm able to hunt and getting a deer is icing on the cake, and even with that I limit myself to bucks only, last bald head I got was I believe was 2012, only reason I refuse to kill bald heads is the fact I don't see large numbers of deer and I that's OK with me, that doe I let go could be the the doe to draw and nice buck for me.....You hunt the way you want as I hunt the way I hunt

Your last line contradicts all that precedes it. You tell people that if they don't do what you do it's wrong then you say hunt the way you want. Makes no sense. No one criticized you for your decisions. But you vilify others. Problem is you don't even see it. 

[BHC]

where did I say to others hunt this way or that way.......From my original post I said my opinion....you either need glasses or medication cause you read what you want to read.....But come next year make my words the areas that got hit hard with EHD, hunters with the brown it's down mentality will be bitching the deer herd is worst

 

Few years ago EHD killed off roughly 60% of the deer herd in and around the Wallkill Refuge in Sussex County, the herd still hasn't recovered completely

 

Milk River area of Montana gets hit with EHD more often then NJ, but being the area is most private and the hunters play it smart the herd recovers faster then here in NJ cause they don't go out to KILL and show off with "see all the deer I killed, I'm a great hunter" 

Watch and learn .....Police your actions now for the future 

[BHC]

it's hard to determine deer populations zone to zone or even positive/negative issues in each zone.....some zones could have many deer, the other side of that zone could be very few deer.....everything is estimates, nothing is concrete in NJ

[midwestxpress]

I can say for myself, when I was younger I would kill a bunch. Now, I'll kill 2 for my family. I haven't even hunted NJ yet. I usually wait til winter bow to hunt. I'm done with this permit for everything bs. 

[JFC1]

46 minutes ago, BHC said:

first off read what I wrote then understand what I wrote I said "IT'S MY OPINION" so it's not authority 2 or 3 deer is more then enough to eat, and no one eats it daily, and the average person doesn't have the means to store 10 plus deer unless they are doing the wrong thing and selling the meat....Farmers have no idea how many deer are roaming around, they see one it's too many....any farmer in NJ that says they are poor are BSing, to own land in NJ you have to have money, plus they save alot more on taxes then the average person plus tax exempt on many other things....so when a hunter says I kill 10 or more deer per year, yeah they aren't hunting they are KILLINING for the enjoyment of KILLING and when they say my family eats everyday, Farmer needs them killed, family/friends want venison they are poor excuses just to kill....In my 41 years of hunting I killed 3 deer in one year in N,J donated one to a benefit dinner .....I'm not greedy, I'm happy to I'm able to hunt and getting a deer is icing on the cake, and even with that I limit myself to bucks only, last bald head I got was I believe was 2012, only reason I refuse to kill bald heads is the fact I don't see large numbers of deer and I that's OK with me, that doe I let go could be the the doe to draw and nice buck for me.....You hunt the way you want as I hunt the way I hunt

BHC, you're right that the farmers around me (at least those families who survived the 70s and 80s as farmers) don't seem to be hurting at all.  And some even use fake or manufactured deer damage to mooch off the govt crop insurance programs. And, no, no family needs 10 deer. 3 is about right for mine.  But I work in NYC and many of my colleagues really appreciate deer meat. The chair of my department is from Alaska and her deceased dad was a bush pilot. She doesn't have another way of getting venison, and definitely can't afford to buy imported NZ deer on what they pay us.

But most importantly there are plenty of areas in NJ where the deer are decimating the landscape. Sorry deer fetishists who want brown all around. By decimating the landscape, I don't mean arbor vitae around some McMansion. I mean understories essential to migrating birds, insects, and to reptile, small mammal and amphibian populations. Not to mention basic forest regeneration (not talking old growth parks here).  I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm committed to reducing numbers on my and my relatives' land. It's not "brown it's down," but it is a serious effort to take baldies and give the plants a break that goes beyond encircling saplings with wire or some totalizing and $$$ "solution" like deer fencing.  Of course, IMHO you'er completely right about those who like to brag about big numbers or kill just to kill. For example, I wouldn't feel right killing 8 deer and give 7 to HHH to process, even if I were taking them out of a landscape with 90/sq mile. But I regularly kill 8 and butcher them myself, giving specifically selected or requested cuts to specific people. And I'm doing it for the forest, and friends, and my table. If deer numbers went down, or I were hunting another area with seriously declining numbers/hit by EHD, I wouldn't do it and I'd expect others to follow suit.  It's not an issue of simply hunting as "we want," but hunting in a way that makes sense in relation to input from others and serious discussion of what's best. 

[deadonshot2]

Deep snow affected deer in north unable to get enough food. I believe someone here found some deer that starved to death. The does would have smaller fawns from increased lack of nutrition which would lead to additional deaths.

Last year everyone was hunting a lot more because of covid situation.  So there were tons of deet killed last year. I remembet several people saying their butcher was not taking deer for several days cause they wete ovet capacity. 

Then you have ehd which affected many more ateas than usual this fall. 

Then a great acorn crop which always seems to knock the deer harvest down some. 

So I think it is a combination of all these factors creating a petfect storm to lower harvest totals so far. I think the areas that did see a dip in kill this fall and were not affected by hige die offs from starvation or ehd will have great years next season since seasonal stuff like acorns probably wont be a factor. Our herd is pretty resilent.

[JFC1]

17 minutes ago, BHC said:

it's hard to determine deer populations zone to zone or even positive/negative issues in each zone.....some zones could have many deer, the other side of that zone could be very few deer.....everything is estimates, nothing is concrete in NJ

except the Irishman's grave? 

[BHC]

Deer numbers are stable or low in traditional deer areas, numbers are up or increasing in areas where hunting isn't allowed or very limited...

I was born and raised in bergen County only deer present and at low numbers in that County wad Mahwah and towns boarding NY STATE.....now deer are all over bergen County 

[Bucndoe]

27 minutes ago, BHC said:

Deer numbers are stable or low in traditional deer areas, numbers are up or increasing in areas where hunting isn't allowed or very limited...

I was born and raised in bergen County only deer present and at low numbers in that County wad Mahwah and towns boarding NY STATE.....now deer are all over bergen County 

Nonsense, deer have been everywhere in Bergen for a very long time just like everywhere else

Edited December 11, 2021 by Bucndoe

[BHC]

38 years I lived in bergen county....Mahwah and neighboring towns had small amount of deer....then other parts of the county started getting deer all along the border with NYS then slowly they moved south...my home town never had deer now in recent years they are numerous, few weeks ago i was in Lyndhurst and a nice buck dead on rt 3...so deer never present in urban areas of bergen County until a few years ago....Deer being seen in jersey city along the Hudson river as well...

Edited December 11, 2021 by BHC

[Bucndoe]

6 minutes ago, BHC said:

38 years I lived in bergen county....Mahwah and neighboring towns had small amount of deer....then other parts of the county started getting deer all along the border with NYS then slowly they moved south...my home town never had deer now in recent years they are numerous, few weeks ago i was in Lyndhurst and a nice buck dead on rt 3...so deer never present in urban areas of bergen County until a few years ago....Deer being seen in jersey city along the Hudson river....a

Absolute nonsense and incorrect. Just cause you never saw them didn't mean they weren't there. Whitetails have been in Lyndhurst for years

Edited December 11, 2021 by Bucndoe

[BHC]

But you did? 

You lived in bergen county  and if so what town and how long?

[Rusty]

56 minutes ago, deadonshot2 said:

Deep snow affected deer in north unable to get enough food. I believe someone here found some deer that starved to death. The does would have smaller fawns from increased lack of nutrition which would lead to additional deaths.

Last year everyone was hunting a lot more because of covid situation.  So there were tons of deet killed last year. I remembet several people saying their butcher was not taking deer for several days cause they wete ovet capacity. 

Then you have ehd which affected many more ateas than usual this fall. 

Then a great acorn crop which always seems to knock the deer harvest down some. 

So I think it is a combination of all these factors creating a petfect storm to lower harvest totals so far. I think the areas that did see a dip in kill this fall and were not affected by hige die offs from starvation or ehd will have great years next season since seasonal stuff like acorns probably wont be a factor. Our herd is pretty resilent.

What he said!