New Sex Ed curriculum

[Tuck]

16 minutes ago, not on the rug said:

Serious question... Are you able to recognize that as indoctrination? like, literally the textbook definition of the word.  

in·doc·tri·na·tion     /inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/     noun

the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

"I would never subject children to religious indoctrination"

 

Are you able to have a conversation with me or anyone else with the understanding that your beliefs might not be correct and that all across the globe, Billions of folks believe in different religions or no religion at all?

I'm not knocking you or your religion or your beliefs, far from it.  Just pointing out that I don't believe in indoctrinating children with any ideologies. 

 

We teach our beliefs and explain why we believe what we do, which always involves what others might believe (and that is ok and their belief).  

I call it parenting, you call it indoctrinating.  

 

[Haskell_Hunter]

43 minutes ago, not on the rug said:

On purpose.  How many "religious" people do you know who are willing to have open-minded conversations with anyone, including their children, where those conversations include the possibility that they may be incorrect about any number of details in regards to their beliefs?  How many "religious" people do you know who never made their kids go to church/temple, etc unless the kid actually wanted to?

Most of them.

[fdsmiles]

God,unit and country is the way i was raised.i believe and have faith in our lord Jesus Christ.so that being said,i'm good.

[JFC1]

Just now, OldMenRule said:

Correct which is why the state should not be forcing absolute views on children. Parenting is difficult enough without having to fight state sponsored propaganda.       

The state forces all sorts of absolute views on children. But a vast majority of Americans recognize views as "absolute" only when they contradict the individual parents' view.  What about the lesbian activist who argues that teaching that families are composed of a biological mom and dad is an absolutist view? Or that a girl is a girl at birth due to her anatomy? That's an absolutist view. Whether or not I agree with it doesn't change its absolutism.

You, like most of us, choose your absolutisms and call them "truth"

[not on the rug]

2 minutes ago, Tuck said:

We teach our beliefs and explain why we believe what we do, which always involves what others might believe (and that is ok and their belief).  

I call it parenting, you call it indoctrinating.  

 

That's fair.  I don't know you or your family and like I said, I'm not judging you guys so I hope it didn't come across the wrong way. 

We have different outlooks on things and that's ok too.  I don't think you're abusing your family or anything like that

[BCsaw]

The propaganda started years ago in Elementary school.
Be a strong parent in voicing your views to your kids. Most are capable of knowing what to believe now.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[OldMenRule]

1 minute ago, not on the rug said:

Well said.  Faith is unquestionable and can never be debated.  No system based on that type of tenet is truly sturdy. It's the world's version of your parents saying "Because I said so" to you when you were a kid. 

To me, Judeo-Christian faith  keeps the human mind and condition weak.  When we are taught from a young age that we must rely in a higher power to see us through our existence, we take the responsibility away from ourselves.  On the opposite end of that, we see Buddhism, which teaches to turn inward to find your answers.  It teaches you strength and belief in yourself. It teaches you how to endure hardship and find the answers in yourself, because the answers were there all along. 

As a benefactor of the Judeo-Christian faith I'll disagree. I was never taught to abdicate my personal responsibility and have always been quite introspective. My parents always touted the commandments. Not as a ticket to heaven but as a guideline to live by. I tried to teach my children the same thing. 

My old man was a faithful man. Not one for the church but still a man of conviction. He summed it best for me when he said he believed that God would see him through the second World War, but that didn't stop him from ducking when he was getting shot at.   

[Tuck]

All great conversation and that is what makes the world go round.  BUT  

 

Would anyone want their own kids exposed to the posted link??  Seems like it is coming to NJ public schools

[JFC1]

2 minutes ago, Tuck said:

We teach our beliefs and explain why we believe what we do, which always involves what others might believe (and that is ok and their belief).  

I call it parenting, you call it indoctrinating.  

 

Yeah, that's why whether it's called parenting, indoctrinating, or education lies in the eyes of the beholder.  It's also why as long as someone isn't doing harm to their family or to society, we need to accept their parenting AND their education of our children. A kid who learns critical thought at home and critical race theory in school can choose, and decide, and maybe chart a new, better course than any of his parents ever imagined. It doesn't happen if we're trapped in our own, or a single community's, mindset. My kid comes up with stuff I never imagined. I listen and engage him on it, trying to sort it out and figure both where he got it and where it leads us

[not on the rug]

2 minutes ago, Haskell_Hunter said:

Most of them.

You and I obviously know very different people.  

Most of dad's family (including extended family) are devout Catholics.  Like, by the book, borderline cult behavior weirdos.  You know the type.  Most of my mom's family are Orthodox Jews who literally refuse to associate with anyone who isn't the same. They will tell me, you and anyone else they meet how they are superior to them, more intelligent than them and just generally better than them. 

The neighborhood I grew up in had several very religious families.   They crammed religion down their kid's throats to the point where the kids were excluded from activities, sports, etc because it was always a church youth group day or church party, etc.  Most of those kids grew up, went to college and literally never came back once they left. 

Many of my co-workers and a few folks in my current community are religious to the point that it's the same thing.  That's how they raise their kids.  The only activities, parties, etc they attend are church related.  There is no talking to any of those folks about anything other than the text they believe in word-for-word.  

[JFC1]

Just now, Tuck said:

All great conversation and that is what makes the world go round.  BUT  

 

Would anyone want their own kids exposed to the posted link??  Seems like it is coming to NJ public schools

My kids get exposed to all sorts of garbage that I don't agree with.  But their base for judging the world and sorting out what's right and wrong has been developed for years in a dialogue that I began with them but that has expanded to include ideas that I can no longer control. The way I see it is that, as long as I did my job right in the beginning and I continue to speak to them sincerely, they'll figure the rest out. Like we all do.

[JFC1]

Just now, OldMenRule said:

He summed it best for me when he said he believed that God would see him through the second World War, but that didn't stop him from ducking when he was getting shot at.   

That's cool. I like that

[JFC1]

Just now, not on the rug said:

You and I obviously know very different people.  

Most of dad's family (including extended family) are devout Catholics.  Like, by the book, borderline cult behavior weirdos.  You know the type.  Most of my mom's family are Orthodox Jews who literally refuse to associate with anyone who isn't the same. They will tell me, you and anyone else they meet how they are superior to them, more intelligent than them and just generally better than them. 

The neighborhood I grew up in had several very religious families.   They crammed religion down their kid's throats to the point where the kids were excluded from activities, sports, etc because it was always a church youth group day or church party, etc.  Most of those kids grew up, went to college and literally never came back once they left. 

Many of my co-workers and a few folks in my current community are religious to the point that it's the same thing.  That's how they raise their kids.  The only activities, parties, etc they attend are church related.  There is no talking to any of those folks about anything other than the text they believe in word-for-word.  

damn

[not on the rug]

11 minutes ago, OldMenRule said:

As a benefactor of the Judeo-Christian faith I'll disagree. I was never taught to abdicate my personal responsibility and have always been quite introspective. My parents always touted the commandments. Not as a ticket to heaven but as a guideline to live by. I tried to teach my children the same thing. 

My old man was a faithful man. Not one for the church but still a man of conviction. He summed it best for me when he said he believed that God would see him through the second World War, but that didn't stop him from ducking when he was getting shot at.   

I think my point is that relying on the 10 Commandments or praying to an outside entity rather than becoming introspective are two drastically different things. Believing that you can help yourself is different than believing that god can help you.  It's not that they can't work together, it's just that oftentimes it seems like they don't.  People get down on their luck and they start to pray instead of doing the work on themselves and their situation. 

The WW2 example is actually a good example of how faith "should" work.    I think that god can help me get through the war, but I'm going to do 99.999% of the work to make that happen.  Just don't get home and think it was god that saved your butt and tell the world that it was god that saved your butt, when it was you all along.  The answer is always within you, you just need to know where to look.    Know what I mean? 

Edited April 7, 2022 by not on the rug

[JFC1]

40 minutes ago, OldMenRule said:

"Respect everyone and mind your own business" Words to live by...

problem is you can't just mind your own business in public school. That's why it's called "public."  Same goes for a national community. That's why it's called a "community."

I'd say "respect everyone and look carefully at their business, judging it in a way that you'd like your business to be evaluated"