Is the 6-Day tradition a thing of the past?

[hammer4reel]

I can't argue with that and I understand. However how charging for individual does will bring them back. That's what I am asking. Again for your idea to work someone has to kill the does so the state can collect the money. How is this bringing back goose hunters?

By reverting back to old season schedules.

Having splits between the seasons. Make the land multi use again .

 

As far as paying for each doe . Guys think they wont lower buck tag amounts due to lost revenue.

But if lower available buck tags. Guys wanting to shoot more deer would have to pay for doe tags .

Not msny guys need to shoot more thsn three or four deer so are only shooting bucks .

Lower amount of bucks taken to improve age of bucks .

And shoot does to keep herd in check

[Rusty]

This is another thing a reduction of buck tags would help. If guy's had only one buck tag, and filled it, they would return to chasing rabbits, geese, maybe even some stocked birds (and buy those stamps). 

 

   

[Lunatic]

By reverting back to old season schedules.

Having splits between the seasons. Make the land multi use again .

 

As far as paying for each doe . Guys think they wont lower buck tag amounts due to lost revenue.

But if lower available buck tags. Guys wanting to shoot more deer would have to pay for doe tags .

Not msny guys need to shoot more thsn three or four deer so are only shooting bucks .

Lower amount of bucks taken to improve age of bucks .

And shoot does to keep herd in check

 

 

Ok, this actually makes sense although I have no idea it would work. You are saying eliminate buck tags, let say to one, and instead charge for does to make up the revenue. Without this explanation I was thinking you want less does to be shot, to make sure we have enough deer, so you proposed charging for them.

[Lunatic]

This is another thing a reduction of buck tags would help. If guy's had only one buck tag, and filled it, they would return to chasing rabbits, geese, maybe even some stocked birds (and buy those stamps). 

 

 

In my opinion you should have two buck tags for the entire season, whenever, however you want to take them. However, a button buck would cost you a buck tag. If you want to save the bucks you can't ignore the huge number of BBs we kill every year. A buck does not have to have antlers to be a buck.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Lunatic

[hammer4reel]

Ok, this actually makes sense although I have no idea it would work. You are saying eliminate buck tags, let say to one, and instead charge for does to make up the revenue. Without this explanation I was thinking you want less does to be shot, to make sure we have enough deer, so you proposed charging for them.

Thats how ohio is set up .

You get to hunt any of the seasons you want .

Want to shoot three deer you buy three tags .

Wanna shoot five you buy five tags .

One of those tags is either sex. So if didnt see buck you wanted to shoot can use it on s doe .

The strictly doe tags cost less thsn the either sex tag.

[Lunatic]

Thats how ohio is set up .

You get to hunt any of the seasons you want .

Want to shoot three deer you buy three tags .

Wanna shoot five you buy five tags .

One of those tags is either sex. So if didnt see buck you wanted to shoot can use it on s doe .

The strictly doe tags cost less thsn the either sex tag.

 

The only question is do you have enough meat hunters vs so many buck tags per season at $28, to make up the difference. My experience with hunters tells me no.

[DV1]

Thats how ohio is set up .

You get to hunt any of the seasons you want .

Want to shoot three deer you buy three tags .

Wanna shoot five you buy five tags .

One of those tags is either sex. So if didnt see buck you wanted to shoot can use it on s doe .

The strictly doe tags cost less thsn the either sex tag.

Yeah, used to be like that in Ohio. They changed that a few years ago. Now, in most counties, you have to buy the more expensive either sex tag to shoot a doe even after you've killed your buck. And next year they will be jacking the price of those up to something close to $100.00 for non-residents. A $100.00 for a doe tag is going to really put a crimp in how non-residents manage their private lands. Ohio is full of deer...FULL OF DEER...yet guys out there think they have a problem with low deer numbers. Like I posted before, it's all relative. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by DV1

[Haskell_Hunter]

license sales, then to now 

 

http://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/pdf/license_sales70-16.pdf

 

I just HAD to make a chart of this so I could visualize it.  I teach data analytics, and you know I'm a nerd, so you should have expected something like this.  They've changed license types over the years, so I consolidated them to make it easier to read.

 

Orange = all hunting licenses (all-around, small game and large game, resident and non-resident)

Blue = all bow hunting licenses (youth, senior, resident and non-resident)

Trapping = gray box at the top (resident and non-resident)

 

There are some definite trends in here.  In the early 1990s, there was a spike in license sales that steadily declined every year over that decade.  What happened?

 

There were more bowhunters in the 1980s than there are now.  I thought bow hunting was on the increase, but there really hasn't been one, and we are at lower numbers than the 1980s.

 

Our numbers have pretty much remained at the same level since 2005, so there isn't a decline, we've plateaued.

 

Trapping has grown and is at the levels of the mid-1980s.

 

The Excel spreadsheet I created this chart from, and that contains all of the data, is located here:  https://www.bacon-n-beer.com/Hunting_Licenses.xlsx

 

If you click on this graphic, it will be HUGE, but the dates at the bottom become more readable.

 

[stratocaster]

I personally would rather pay more to get more.

For me its about the quality of the hunt , not the numbers of the kills.

its all a resource, take from it pay for it.

wanna hunt every season , PAY for it.

 

Not like you buy a ticket to a baseball game and get to go watch basketball and hockey for the price of that ticket

 

There are plenty of rabbits around, and ten times the geese.

Guys wont disturb their prize spike buck areas in fear of pushing the deer off.

 

AND since you truelly haven't been doing this long you haven't seen how much more hunter participation there used to be in ALL the seasons.

 

If you want to get more then buy your own land so only you have access to it.  When there were tens of thousands more hunters the longer seasons were not needed as more hunters were hunting and the harvested deer were more spread out among a lot more hunters.  I hunted in those years of the 80' and 90's and remember them well. The decline in license sales has been discussed here ad nauseam. 

 To respond,  we are paying for it.  We all get the same allowances for every license we buy, if we want more then we buy the extended season permits.  You are illogically connecting hunting a "natural resource" that is replenished every year with a "baseball".  Makes no sense. 

By your logic, we should all have to buy another trout stamp once we catch our limit of six trout and we should have to call the trout in like we do when we kill a deer. 

 

If I hunt Z9 extended bow c-son then I pay, if I also want to hunt z7, then I pay again, Z8 then I pay again etc.. A lot of guys are under the mistaken assumption that if "this or that" were enacted then we would magically have monster deer and a real quality hunt. 

 

NJ does not have any quality hunting or real hunting for that matter nor do we have or ever will have giant bucks walking around.  If you don't understand why, then you don't understand NJ hunting.  I accept what NJ presents to me and don't fool myself or anyone else that if we just did "this" it would be awesome.  This state is what it is, despite a very few big bucks taken. 

[stratocaster]

Yeah, used to be like that in Ohio. They changed that a few years ago. Now, in most counties, you have to buy the more expensive either sex tag to shoot a doe even after you've killed your buck. And next year they will be jacking the price of those up to something close to $100.00 for non-residents. A $100.00 for a doe tag is going to really put a crimp in how non-residents manage their private lands. Ohio is full of deer...FULL OF DEER...yet guys out there think they have a problem with low deer numbers. Like I posted before, it's all relative. 

THERE ARE NO DEER IN OHIO.  STOP LYING......You can't convince me the midwest has any deer much less monster bucks so don't try to fool us.  And don't post any pictures of any bucks you or Jack has taken in OH because they don't exist either.

The midwest is terrible for deer hunting so you nor anyone else should go there.......at least until I kill a monster.....

[hammer4reel]

If you want to get more then buy your own land so only you have access to it.  When there were tens of thousands more hunters the longer seasons were not needed as more hunters were hunting and the harvested deer were more spread out among a lot more hunters.  I hunted in those years of the 80' and 90's and remember them well. The decline in license sales has been discussed here ad nauseam. 

 To respond,  we are paying for it.  We all get the same allowances for every license we buy, if we want more then we buy the extended season permits.  You are illogically connecting hunting a "natural resource" that is replenished every year with a "baseball".  Makes no sense. 

By your logic, we should all have to buy another trout stamp once we catch our limit of six trout and we should have to call the trout in like we do when we kill a deer. 

 

If I hunt Z9 extended bow c-son then I pay, if I also want to hunt z7, then I pay again, Z8 then I pay again etc.. A lot of guys are under the mistaken assumption that if "this or that" were enacted then we would magically have monster deer and a real quality hunt. 

 

NJ does not have any quality hunting or real hunting for that matter nor do we have or ever will have giant bucks walking around.  If you don't understand why, then you don't understand NJ hunting.  I accept what NJ presents to me and don't fool myself or anyone else that if we just did "this" it would be awesome.  This state is what it is, despite a very few big bucks taken. 

 

you need to open your eyes, and see what kind of bucks NJ can grow with just a little age.

in areas that they  don't allow hunting , BOONERS are walking in the yards daily..

and you would be surprised by the number of giants harvested yearly here that many never get to see.

guys don't want competition for those spots, as there are quite a few taken on good public pieces

 

the part about paying for the resource taken is to spread it out, to allow each hunter a chance at available game.

to compare it to keeping more fish after a limit, that's what the limit is for, to allow others  a chance at the REST of the available fish

Edited December 6, 2017 by hammer4reel

[BHC]

A friend of mine got tired of all the problems with too much crowding and few very deer on our area WMA's so about 8 years ago, he started making he trip up north to the Water Gap to hunt. He has hunted Worthington and Stokes, says you can't believe the amount of sign and deer, and big bucks. He has killed some big, old bucks up there over the last 6 years, 4 of them between 4.5 and 6.5 yrs old. Took him a few years to figure it out but now he doesn't even bother with the WMA's around here, he makes a few trips up there each year and fills his tag. It's all relative, what you guys think is bad hunting, people from area's with fewer deer (Vermont, South Jersey) will tell you is good hunting. 

I agree with your statement, but the overall the herd is low compared to the mid/late 90s

[Lunatic]

 

 

the part about paying for the resource taken is to spread it out, to allow each hunter a chance at available game.

to compare it to keeping more fish after a limit, that's what the limit is for, to allow others  a chance at the REST of the available fish

 

Paying for taking deer does not spread it out like the fish limit. Fish limit puts the same restriction on every single person while the suggested pay to play for deer hunting does not. People with money take more deer  and how does that give other hunters chance at available resources? Limit the bag limit on deer and then you could compare this to fish limit as a meaningful way to give everyone a chance at our resources.

[stratocaster]

you need to open your eyes, and see what kind of bucks NJ can grow with just a little age.

in areas that they  don't allow hunting , BOONERS are walking in the yards daily..

and you would be surprised by the number of giants harvested yearly here that many never get to see.

guys don't want competition for those spots, as there are quite a few taken on good public pieces

 

the part about paying for the resource taken is to spread it out, to allow each hunter a chance at available game.

to compare it to keeping more fish after a limit, that's what the limit is for, to allow others  a chance at the REST of the available fish

Let's see.  I bought my first bow and firearm license in 1977 as soon as I was old enough to legally hunt and have bought both every year since, so I have some experience with hunting every game species in this state. 

 

My eyes are open and I see the bucks NJ produces every year, at least the reported ones.  If an area doesn't allow hunting then what difference does it make whether or not a BOONER  is there.  That would be like saying, "look at the size of the bucks in that zoo".  I also understand why a hunter would not want to publicize a big buck he's taken, jealousy, possible crowding, investigation by CO etc...

I know a few spots near me that have very big bucks as far as NJ goes, but hunting is not allowed due to ordinances. One is an eleven, one a big 10, one is a 14 and one is a big 8.  But they are not BOONERS and would not classify as big in the midwest  None of them make the minimum 170 typical or 195 non typical class.   Maybe you don't know the odds of any buck getting to B&C class if that is what you are referring to. To generically state BOONER is very misleading to other hunters, or to state that age makes up for genetics as well as your intentions may be.   Big for NJ is totally different than for Iowa and other states.  

 

I said before that I can only go by what is entered in the deer classic and a hunter is not required to have their buck measured or entered so you may be correct that more "big bucks"are taken but not reported but you don't know how many or how big.  I only know realistically what the odds are and wishful thinking does not figure in to my calculations. 

 

As far as paying for the resource, that does not make a hunter more effective nor does it push deer from hunterdon county to the pine barrens so paying does not make the odds better for each hunter if they are hunting public land or marginal deer habitat or if they don't have hunting skills, so there is no support for your argument about "allowing each hunter a chance at available game".  It sounds like a socialist platform for deer hunting.  Save some deer for the other guys.  It's just not credible. 

[JHbowhunter]

This has turned into a very productive debate. I hope F&G is reading!

Edited December 7, 2017 by JHbowhunter