Hand gun Question .

[B B]

I have done similar tests and they are true

 

Damn that's cool would you mind posting your findings.

[not on the rug]

A word of caution: Every home defense situation is unique. No two are the same, but they can be similar.

 

We all can agree that when they do occur, time is not on your side. Your ability to arm yourself, aim and fire a weapon are the most important. The vast majority of people don't want to die. So if you do fire, and most likely you will miss, the perp will run.

 

The same self defense class I took at Cherry Ridge we did some shooting under pressure. Our pistols were on the shooting table in front of us. Hands at our side. The instructor yelled "go" and we grabbed our pistols, said "stop or I'll shoot" and then fired two rounds as quickly as we could. Our targets were maybe 20 feet away. I got my target in the right side with only one round going into the RDZ (rapid decompression zone). The other shooter in class missed the target with both shots. You have to be a very, very good shot to drop your target with the first and/or second shot.

 

Do you shoot trap / skeet with the gun already at your shoulder when you call "pull"? I don't. I hold the gun at rest and shoulder it and then fire. It obviously makes a huge difference. Try it some time and see how your accuracy suffers. In a home protection situation, you'd have to shoulder your gun, aim and shoot. That is a long process and your aim will suffer.

 

I strongly recommend going to the range and / or taking a live fire defensive class. I love them. Lots of learning going on and nearly all of my assumptions were invalided in the process. However, in the end, I am better prepared at home if the unlikely situation occurs.

 

I absolutely agree that each situation is different and that we should all be as thoroughly prepared as possible.

 

That being said, the birdshot vs buckshot testing was done at close range and one of the links I provided showed the spread of the shots over distance. At very close range, the difference is essentially nonexistant. As the distance increased, it was clear which would he more effective. That being said, most (not all) home defense situations require extremely close range shooting. Unless you live in a sprawling ranch home with a 75ft hallway, your shot will probably be at 3-7 yards. Even 10 yards tops. Thats 30ft. At those ranges, birdshot will be absolutely lethal.

 

Damn that's cool would you mind posting your findings.

Not until you read the 3 links I already provided and tell me exactly how far your probable home defense shot would be

 

Believe me, I was skeptical until I did some of these shots myself and came across this information years ago.

 

And for the record, I don't like to take chances. I'm prepared for longer shots if necessary. I load 00 buck and have backup weapons as well. Plus the dogs would give me a heads up and probably tear an intruder apart before I had to resort to shooting

Edited November 15, 2017 by not on the rug

[B B]

I read the links, they were interesting and taken with a grain of salt.  We do agree on one thing though a dog is the best home protection.

 

 

[not on the rug]

I read the links, they were interesting and taken with a grain of salt.  We do agree on one thing though a dog is the best home protection.

I take everything with a grain of salt.

 

Next time you hage the opportunity, get yourself some plywood 3/4" or thicker, and take some close ranged shots with a mix of ammo. Try 3yds, 5yds, 7yds and 10yds. Use some birdshot, some waterfowl loads, some 00 buck and whatever else you like. The results will surprise you.

 

A dog is your eyes and ears, especially while you sleep. My guys don't miss a beat. I'd imagine that a big dog, especially a rottie, german shepherd, etc would be a tood enough deterrent to most would-be home invaders. If the dogs are going nuts and some asshole still wants to come in, I know he wants to harm my family.

[Bones]

I did read them, plywood and drywall is nothing like the density of the human skull, tissue and fluids and the round shape makes projectiles follow the curve of it around. Not like shooting flat pine plywood and particle board

The human skull is very amazing.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/head-shots-and-bouncing-bullets

[Bones]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/36nd1z/bird_shot_and_you/

[Farmshine]

I have a 454 Casull and it would not be my first choice for home defense. Before you shoot you would need to scream "duck" so your neighbors three houses away could hide in their basement so they don't get hit by a round after it goes through your house and the next two neighbor's houses. I've shot mine celan through live 8" tree trunks. That wild go through a hell of a lot of interior walls and a few exterior

Oh. I don’t have these “neighbors” you speak of. Too many factors to consider where a projectile may end up. But I see your point in a neighborhood setting.

 

 

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[Kayak Ken]

If you want a firearm for home defense you have to take into account who else lives with you and how far the round will travel until it stops. The last thing you want is for the round to travel into a children's  bedroom. 

[not on the rug]

I did read them, plywood and drywall is nothing like the density of the human skull, tissue and fluids and the round shape makes projectiles follow the curve of it around. Not like shooting flat pine plywood and particle board

The human skull is very amazing.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/head-shots-and-bouncing-bullets

 

Agreed that the human skull is incredibly hard.  I'm imagining that in home defense situations, you're basically pointing and spraying at center mass. I'm probably not picking headshots down a dark hallway at a moving intruder

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/36nd1z/bird_shot_and_you/

Very interesting, and I've seen similar testing done a million times.  Do you know what distance those shots were taken from?  One of the links I shared earlier was from close range, so close that the wad was getting stuck in the ballistics gel as well.  You'd definitely get more penetration and lethality from birdshot the closer you were.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not loading with birdshot, I'm just showing that from close range it will be lethal most times.  Sure there are crazy 1 in a million stories of people surviving all types of gunshot wounds, but more often than not, the gunshots result in death.   I'm no rolling the dice with birdshot or advocating that anyone else does, just showing that at close range, it will get the job done.  

[BenedictGomez]

Shooting someone with birdshot won't stop them from killing you.

 

This is one of those oft-repeated, wives tales. 

 

I'm not sure how it ever became a thing, but it's obviously not true, as anyone who's patterned a 12-gauge from 10 feet could easily tell you.  Depending upon the layout of the space, birdshot in a 12-gauge is an excellent choice if you have kiddies in adjacent rooms like many people do.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Interesting discussion on birdshot.  Very educational.

 

But remember, you are considering a narrow set of conditions and are essentially limiting your choices of home protection.

 

Let's say you let your dog out and it gets in between a bear and cubs.  Is a shotgun with birdshot your first choice to protect your dog?  How about if your family is on the second floor of your home, and you confront your intruder on the first floor.  Children in the next room are no longer an issue.  How about multiple intruders?  What would your weapon of choice be?

 

Rather than narrow it down to one gun for home protection, it's best to have options.  That's just my opinion.  I have two pistols and an AR available, one of the pistols is loaded with one ready in the chamber.  That's my first line of defense.  If I have time to grab and load my other options, I can arm each person in my family.  And like I said before, God forbid I ever have to grab that gun for anything other than going to the range, but I will not limit myself to just one option because I will never know how such a terrible event will pan out.

 

I think of it like smoke detectors.  How many do you have, where are the placed, and why didn't you just get one?

[Bill from NJ]

Now with kids in the house....I'm gonna go full spider monkey with a couple blades and get mid evil on his ass.

 

I feel all warm & fuzzy in my little abode.

 

My wife is Taino Indian from Puerto Rico.

 

Have you ever seen a pissed off Puertorican woman with a machete?

 

Picture a Momma Bear protecting her cubs.

 

I believe I would need to toss the pistol over to the boo-gular, for his own self protection.

 

 

In the words of A-Teams B.A. Baracus........

[Livesintrees]

If you want a semi get a Glock 17 in 9mm. Reliability well it’s a Glock. If you want a wheel gun get a smith and Wesson model 686 shoots 357 and 38’s. Reliability second to none. I have both plus another half dozen. Revolvers don’t jam. If somehow you have a bad bullet (doesn’t set the primer off) you just pull the trigger again and the next round fires. Plus for a wife if that’s an issue it’s just easy to use all around.

[Livesintrees]

And if you want a shotgun look at the Mossberg shockwave. Just picked one up last week. Shortest legal shotgun you can own. 5 plus 1 capacity. It’s very short and easy to move around with.

[B B]

This is one of those oft-repeated, wives tales. 

DRT is the main objective.  Bird shot will most likely not meet that requirement and the threat may still have the ability to return fire.  I'm not willing to take that chance.