Why no "pumpkin" balls for deer hunting in NJ?

[GetOutdoors]

2 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

I should add buckshot to list of things I hate. I bet more deer are mortally wounded and never recovered to the overall spray and pray mentality.  Probably as bad as crossbows.  
 

 

I took 2 of first 3 deer with BS, 40-50 yds one bang flop one trotted off 100 yds.  Both meat does and a happy little kid.

That said, once I shot a couple patterns at 45 yds I was mortified at what i was flinging.

I asked Dad for a ML for xmas, got it, and never looked back.  (mostly)

Fast forward 20 years I am hunting with a little HS kid and he's got a an enormous mossberg 3.5" 12g.   Says he's taken deer at 60, 80, 100 yds with it.   While out that day he dropped a spike at 70+ yds in its tracks.   

So, yes, as we all know buckshot is deadly and modern advances in loads, payload, and chokes can extend that in terms of reliability and range.

HOWEVER, this wasnt why I was posting. It was about why NOT big roundballs.  I am rather sure that they are extremely effective if range is kept to the limits of field accuracy.  As it is with buckshot, bow, prb, etc etc.     The "not accurate" argument can be applied to a vast majority of tools, and once you get to the limits, to everything really.    

Can you not use #6 shot for squirrel hunting since it lacks effective pattern or penetration at 126 yards?  No.  Just dont use it at 126 yds!

It's NJ.   I guess thats the real answer?!

 

 

 

[Live to Hunt]

10 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

I should add buckshot to list of things I hate. I bet more deer are mortally wounded and never recovered to the overall spray and pray mentality.  Probably as bad as crossbows.  
 

 

Yeah I also added Mathew bows to my list of things I hate. More deer are missed (Wide Clyde) wounded but, blame RAGE.  Baiting is needed because can’t shoot further than 10 yards with them.  

[GetOutdoors]

11 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

Very different situation. A muzzloader barrel will be uniform in diameter the entire length whereas a shotgun will have some form of choke and that means your pumpkin ball goes through the forcing cone which distorts the round ball making it fly erratically.  Hence why we now have rifled slug barrels and modern sabots.  

OK.  But is it legal to use foster slugs out of a smoothbore slugger barrel with open sites?   (rhetorical). Is it legal for someone to shoot at a deer 125 yds away with this setup?   

Is pumpkin ball inferior in accuracy at 40 yds to a foster slug at 85?  

 

Its all moot really, I wasnt trying to compare one method or tool over another.  i was curious if there was a legal reasoning, and the consensus was accuracy or lack thereof.     Were they ever legal here in NJ?  IF so, when were they banned?

[GetOutdoors]

17 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

 Hence why we now have rifled slug barrels and modern sabots.  

... and crossbows with scopes. 

 

[Bucksnbows]

1 minute ago, GetOutdoors said:

OK.  But is it legal to use foster slugs out of a smoothbore slugger barrel with open sites?   (rhetorical). Is it legal for someone to shoot at a deer 125 yds away with this setup?   

Is pumpkin ball inferior in accuracy at 40 yds to a foster slug at 85?  

 

Its all moot really, I wasnt trying to compare one method or tool over another.  i was curious if there was a legal reasoning, and the consensus was accuracy or lack thereof.     Were they ever legal here in NJ?  IF so, when were they banned?

It’s all I ever heard my NJ buddies’ fathers talk about was pumpkin balls for deer. I’m not sure when the state outlawed them. I’m sure if shotgun manufacturers made a barrel for them with adjustable sights or cantilever scope mounts, one could make an argument to bring them back. 

[JHbowhunter]

15 minutes ago, Live to Hunt said:

Yeah I also added Mathew bows to my list of things I hate. More deer are missed (Wide Clyde) wounded but, blame RAGE.  Baiting is needed because can’t shoot further than 10 yards with them.  

Don’t get butthurt Toddy.  I knew that would flame the fire.  It ain’t the tool it’s the brains or lack thereof behind the tool. I did speak to all the dog handlers and they did say over 90% of tracks are crossbow hunters….   

[Bucksnbows]

Alright @1957Buck, now I’m calling you out on your thumbs down. Why can’t you accept facts?  You seldom give thumbs down for someone’s opinions, but you often do with simple facts. Go ahead, prove me wrong. 

[vdep217]

13 minutes ago, GetOutdoors said:

OK.  But is it legal to use foster slugs out of a smoothbore slugger barrel with open sites?   (rhetorical). Is it legal for someone to shoot at a deer 125 yds away with this setup?   

Is pumpkin ball inferior in accuracy at 40 yds to a foster slug at 85?  

 

Its all moot really, I wasnt trying to compare one method or tool over another.  i was curious if there was a legal reasoning, and the consensus was accuracy or lack thereof.     Were they ever legal here in NJ?  IF so, when were they banned?

A rifled foster slug at 100 yrds I can hold about a 4 inch group.  I have shot pumpkin balls that my grandfather had.  10 inch group at 40 yrds was good.  There is no uniformity no consistency.   The best I could describe it would be a cut shell.  Outside of 20 yrds no clue what it's gonna do

[Live to Hunt]

6 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

Don’t get butthurt Toddy.  I knew that would flame the fire.  It ain’t the tool it’s the brains or lack thereof behind the tool. I did speak to all the dog handlers and they did say over 90% of tracks are crossbow hunters….   

So Harris you’re just trying stir shit up. (What do they call that?) or do you really hate crossbows because you are an elite bow hunter? Did you speak to the dog handler while he was tracking that big buck you lost but, blamed RAGE? 

[JHbowhunter]

8 minutes ago, Live to Hunt said:

So Harris you’re just trying stir shit up. (What do they call that?) or do you really hate crossbows because you are an elite bow hunter? Did you speak to the dog handler while he was tracking that big buck you lost but, blamed RAGE? 

No need for dog.  2008 - those rages back then opened in flight and smack the deer sideways.  No blood no foul. 

[Live to Hunt]

2 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

No need for dog.  2008 - those rages back then opened in flight and smack the deer sideways.  No blood no foul. 

 

[JHbowhunter]

15 minutes ago, Live to Hunt said:

 

I love you man…. Like a brother

 

Edited March 3 by JHbowhunter

[electric10162]

32 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

I love you man…. Like a brother

 

You two should get a room

[1957Buck]

2 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

Very different situation. A muzzloader barrel will be uniform in diameter the entire length whereas a shotgun will have some form of choke and that means your pumpkin ball goes through the forcing cone which distorts the round ball making it fly erratically.  Hence why we now have rifled slug barrels and modern sabots.  

Answer back boring to produce a smooth bore with no distortions.  Choke and bore 2 different things 

[GetOutdoors]

2 hours ago, JHbowhunter said:

 I did speak to all the dog handlers and they did say over 90% of tracks are crossbow hunters….   

Damn.

So, a very different thread than this one, but since my question was answered and we're all just going around, lets drift the topic a little.

Do you think (in your experience, in their experience, etc) that it's people not training with the xbow, using inferior bolts, or extending the range beyond what should be acceptable?  I am guessing equal parts 1 and 3.   Other reason?  

I bought one on clearance at some friends urging.  5 years+ later its still unassembled in a box in the attic.  Should really get around to it.