UPDATE: Nappen or another attorney to appeal handgun permit denial??

[AllGoodNamesRGone]

Sorry for the long rant.  I felt the need to vent on my brother in laws behalf.  I can only imagine how he feels.   Smh

 

Here's a prime example of a poor man paying twice that of an ordinary (or rich) man.   My brother in Law decided to go with a "cheaper attorney" who said he would do the appeal for 2500 and that would include filing and attending hearing(s).  Any expert testimony fees, other costs or an appeal to a higher court would be extra.  Fair enough.  He asks me to go with him so I do.   1st day is the ("Free Consultation") and he provides the attorney the denial letter, explains the circumstances, and as per the attorney request, my brother in law emails him a few other documents. Approximately 3 or 4 pages.  The attorney then asks for a 2k retainer and as my brother in law is writing a check the attorney asked if he could do 2500 and assured him that would cover everything other than a possible expert report, testimony, or any future appeals down the road.   He agrees and hands the attorney a check for $2500.  We leave.   A few days later the attorney calls him and asks for the email confirmation that he submitted the permit to purchase a handgun.  He looks for it and can't find the email (they don't send an email when applying for a handgun permit, only for fid or change of address.  What they do is email you once references submit the questionnaire).  A few days later the attorney emails him asking for the email confirmation. My brother in law tells the attorney  he can't find it and provides him with the date the references responded which is the same Date he filed the application on line.   (On a side note, I find that is the fastest time friends will do something for you.   Like.... oh shit, reference needed,  pull off to the shoulder on rte 80 so u can fill it out lol).   The attorney replies "So you don't have confirmation".  Fast forward a month, the attorney calls him and says he received the discovery and tells my brother in law it's going to be an uphill battle. Then they discuss a date for a meeting between attorney and client. That phone conversation lasts 1 minute 37 seconds.    A week later they meet (I'm present also).  The attorney hands my brother in law discovery.  The usual background checks, criminal history, mv violations and domestic disputes, etc... all of which are clean and then hands my brother in law around 5 or 6 police reports.  None of those Police reports were against him. They were reports of complaints he made.   (Denial was over lying on the application which after personally reviewing everything I think my brother in law has atleast a 90% probability of being successful).   The attorney then makes some comments regarding a judge believing a cops testimony over my brother in law (that was said multiple times), along with some other stuff which clearly indicated he didn't thoroughly look through discovery, nor did my brother in law have the opportunity to provide any evidence or explanation regarding that discovery.  At this time I gave my brother in law a nudge and singled the index finger across neck (to suggest cut this attorney off and find another one) my brother in law informed the attorney he was going to gather all his evidence and forward it to him then we left.  While leaving my brother in law asked for a reference for a psych evaluation. The attorney said he knew someone in Montclair and was going to forward him the information that day. We were there for less than 30 minutes.  27 mins to be exact because we had to wait a while for attorney to arrive.   That same day my brother in law decides to go with a new attorney and retains him.  Also that same day he sends his prior attorney an email informing the attorney ot was in his best interest to go with another more experienced gun permit attorney. Then requests a full refund.   I suggested he request a full refund because all the attorney did was waste my brother in law's time. Basically tell him it was an uphill battle, and his testimony wouldn't matter over an officers testimony.  He was definitely the worst attorney I've ever dealt with in my life.  

 

Here's the kicker .... Other than the free consultation,  there were 2 calls totalling 2 mins 37 seconds) a short text conversation in regards to email conformation for gun permit application, 3 or 4 pages of documents emails to the attorney that he requested and a 27 minute meeting which basically consisted of the Attorney handing my brother in law the discovery and saying in a round about way.... yo... you're shit outta luck.  Nothing else. No explanation or evidence regarding that discovery was provided by my brother in law as he had not reviewed it yet.  He said he was going to review it and forward it to the attorney once he gathered everything.  

 

This was the info provided by the attorney once my brother in law requested a refund... (see photo)

 

 

 

 

My brother in law needs an attorney to appeal his denial of handgun permit.  I belive he's in Lyndhurst, definitely Bergen County.  Didn't really give me the reason other than possibly some voluntary commitment a decade ago. Is Nappen the guy or anyone else out there?  I belive his concern is if handgun permit is denied the fid which he has will be revoked.    I haven't really taken the time to look into any of it and I'd rather just refer him an attorney (though he doesn't even know if he can afford one yet).   Any info would be appreciated. 

Edited March 14 by AllGoodNamesRGone
Update

[hostak126]

I would go through Nappen. Unfortunately the clock is ticking against him and needs to lawyer up right away or he will lose his FOID and any firearms he currently owns.

Edited December 22, 2023 by hostak126

[Ron]

I will get back to you, hopefully. Guy I work with used an attorney to get his concealed. I just reached out to him. When he gets back to me I will pass on the information. 

[hostak126]

To broaden the reason for the denial and a voluntary commitment from roughly a decade ago. The State went back and up loaded decades of involuntary and voluntary commitments into their system and either voluntary or involuntary are grounds for denial and or revocation of an FOID. I believe in the denial email they should have given him time to appeal the decision but if not he has either 30 or 45 days to file and appeal.

When Chapter 131 was signed into law on 12/22/2022 (carry killer bill) voluntary mental health commitments became a disqualifier.

[Booner]

Napped helped out a buddy of mine and the case changed the law in peacock Gladstone. Long story but Nappen was an animal

[Sako76]

Nappen handled two tickets a buddy got, both dismissed!  $2500!

[Faster]

Nappen is definitely the only choice. Look no further

[Booner]

True. Nappen not cheap though

[Ridgerunner]

Hopefully Nappen calls you back. My buddy contacted his office several times over a seizure issue. Talked to a few different people in his office. Never received a call back from an attorney. He is good but not calling people back is unprofessional.

[Bucndoe]

Unfortunately for him, applying for either another handgun permit or a carry permit application after his initial issuance, it triggered him being disqualified under the new law which went into effect in December of 2022. All firearms acquired before and the FID card he has now are subject to seizure. The card he has now is invalid.

Now N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3c, as modified, disqualifies anyone who voluntarily checked in to an inpatient or outpatient treatment center and anyone who the court ordered into treatment from having guns (N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c)(13)). Moreover, those who applied for and received a FPIC before the new law took effect in December 2022, must now surrender their cards since they are no longer valid. So, those who regained their right to apply for and receive a FPIC based on a medical professional’s letter or other medical proof under the old law must now give up their card or face legal consequences. Those with mental health histories may only obtain FPICs, handgun, and carry permits with mental health expungements. Mental health expungements are not easy to obtain and must go through the Superior Court.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Bucndoe

[AllGoodNamesRGone]

1 minute ago, Bucndoe said:

Unfortunately for him, applying for either another handgun permit or a carry permit application after his initial issuance, it triggered him being disqualified under the new law. All firearms acquired before and the FID card he has now are subject to seizure. 

Now N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3c, as modified, disqualifies anyone who voluntarily checked in to an inpatient or outpatient treatment center and anyone who the court ordered into treatment from having guns (N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c)(13)). Moreover, those who applied for and received a FPIC before the new law took effect in December 2022, must now surrender their cards since they are no longer valid. So, those who regained their right to apply for and receive a FPIC based on a medical professional’s letter or other medical proof under the old law must now give up their card or face legal consequences. Those with mental health histories may only obtain FPICs, handgun, and carry permits with mental health expungements. Mental health expungements are not easy to obtain and must go through the Superior Court.

Here's the problem with that....and while I was working I'd catch these "loopholes" (aka bad laws that werent given enough thought) all day long and wondered how long til they realize they either not enforce them or change the law.  

 

NJ IA Policy for Police.  "Drug Resiliency".  Cops asks for help before department finds out, catches him doing something wrong, etc.. whatever.  He CAN NOT BE TERMINATED for seeking help.  He voluntarily checks into an inpatient mental health/rehab program.   What's happens to those guys?   Hundreds if not thousands when you take corrections into account.  Many PBA/ unions, fob, will send guys out of state to treatment centers. The State is irrelevant from a legal standpoint, just harder to come across that record.    

 

Now what?

People write these laws and don't think.   

 

 

[Bucndoe]

29 minutes ago, AllGoodNamesRGone said:

Here's the problem with that....and while I was working I'd catch these "loopholes" (aka bad laws that werent given enough thought) all day long and wondered how long til they realize they either not enforce them or change the law.  

 

NJ IA Policy for Police.  "Drug Resiliency".  Cops asks for help before department finds out, catches him doing something wrong, etc.. whatever.  He CAN NOT BE TERMINATED for seeking help.  He voluntarily checks into an inpatient mental health/rehab program.   What's happens to those guys?   Hundreds if not thousands when you take corrections into account.  Many PBA/ unions, fob, will send guys out of state to treatment centers. The State is irrelevant from a legal standpoint, just harder to come across that record.    

 

Now what?

People write these laws and don't think.   

 

 

What's your point ? You asked a question and I answered it with statute for what seems to apply to the facts you posted. That is where any attorney that is retained will start.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Bucndoe

[AllGoodNamesRGone]

1 hour ago, Bucndoe said:

What's your point ? You asked a question and I answered it with statute for what seems to apply to the facts you posted. That is where any attorney that is retained will start.

Did you happen to read the question?   It didn't call for a statute.  It called for attorney referral.  

Geezz... have a good night buddy 

[hostak126]

6 minutes ago, AllGoodNamesRGone said:

Did you happen to read the question?   It didn't call for a statute.  It called for attorney referral.  

Geezz... have a good night buddy 

Yes he did ask for an Attorney referral, but due to the gravity of the situation, it's best to explain how and why this person is in significant trouble.

[mike033089]

I am not sure of @Bucndoe profession but anyone who’s been a member long enough knows he has a ton of knowledge (I would assume but don’t like to assume) first hand with NJ laws and firearms. While he didn’t provide an attorney he still provided facts which in a situation like this any info is good info.  Good luck to your friend, hope it gets sorted out.