UPDATE: Nappen or another attorney to appeal handgun permit denial??

[Bucndoe]

6 hours ago, AllGoodNamesRGone said:

Did you happen to read the question?   It didn't call for a statute.  It called for attorney referral.  

Geezz... have a good night buddy 

Yes

12 hours ago, AllGoodNamesRGone said:

My brother in law needs an attorney to appeal his denial of handgun permit.  I belive he's in Lyndhurst, definitely Bergen County.  Didn't really give me the reason other than possibly some voluntary commitment a decade ago. Is Nappen the guy or anyone else out there?  I belive his concern is if handgun permit is denied the fid which he has will be revoked.    I haven't really taken the time to look into any of it and I'd rather just refer him an attorney (though he doesn't even know if he can afford one yet).   Any info would be appreciated. 

There appeared to be more than one question in your post. Those seemed like questions, if not sorry for wasting your time to read my response. His concern is legit and these referrals for seizures are occurring in the very county you mentioned right now. Most members on here aren't even aware of this happening or of the Firearms Permitting statute change. I saw it as an opportunity to possibly help educate some NJ Firearms Owners on here. It is a very real pitfall that some members may and will fall into while not even knowing about it just like your brother in law. My answer was not just for you, but for any and all on here that would read your post.

I don't do attorney referrals, others gave you answers for that part of your question.

[Ron]

9 hours ago, Bucndoe said:

Unfortunately for him, applying for either another handgun permit or a carry permit application after his initial issuance, it triggered him being disqualified under the new law which went into effect in December of 2022. All firearms acquired before and the FID card he has now are subject to seizure. The card he has now is invalid.

Now N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3c, as modified, disqualifies anyone who voluntarily checked in to an inpatient or outpatient treatment center and anyone who the court ordered into treatment from having guns (N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c)(13)). Moreover, those who applied for and received a FPIC before the new law took effect in December 2022, must now surrender their cards since they are no longer valid. So, those who regained their right to apply for and receive a FPIC based on a medical professional’s letter or other medical proof under the old law must now give up their card or face legal consequences. Those with mental health histories may only obtain FPICs, handgun, and carry permits with mental health expungements. Mental health expungements are not easy to obtain and must go through the Superior Court.

So if a LEO checks into a facility to get voluntary help for depression and stress from the job, does that mean he can no longer be a LEO?  According to this law his/she has disqualified themselves from gun ownership in the state of NJ.  

[AllGoodNamesRGone]

My final thought to this post before I wrap it up, there is nothin wrong with providing information, hell i even went a step further and provided additional information suggesting these "lawmakers" don't think before signing into effect these laws.  Think of the gravity of that, thousands of LEO's in NJ legally not authorized to carry a gun because the statue reads "shall not be issued"......."To any person who has previously voluntarily admitted to inpatient treatment."    Makes sense right, nothing wrong with his comment or mine.    I guess the difference was, I don't reply with "Whats your point? You asked a question and I answered it...."  

um....geeeez,  relax,  I don't have a point, i don't need a point, i'm retired and live a stress free life.  I was just commenting on your answer like you were commenting on mine.  Maybe people have bad days, are stressed, don't like other peoples opinions, etc... I don't know.  Maybe people are offended easily?  Maybe they need the last say?   Who knows.

 

However, I did email members of the NJ Legislature and office of the Attorney General last night, requesting an amendment to N.J. S. A. 2C:58-3c as it clearly contradicts the NJ Internal Affairs Policy & Procedure along with Directive 2019-1 Officer Resiliency Directive.

 

On that note, my fat ass is going to go grab a sausage egg & cheese McMuffin, hashbrowns and medium coffee.  You all have a great day and be safe.  

[Bucndoe]

5 minutes ago, Ron said:

So if a LEO checks into a facility to get voluntary help for depression and stress from the job, does that mean he can no longer be a LEO?  According to this law his/she has disqualified themselves from gun ownership in the state of NJ.  

There are way too many layers on that onion and there is no specific answer for me to give you because its way too broad.

Believe it or not, private gun ownership outside of employment are two different animals. Most of the firearms that law enforcement carry on duty are not owned by them. Not all agencies require FID for employment. More have in recent years but there isn't uniformity throughout the state. Similar to employment contracts

Issues like that may result in retirement/disability/suspension/termination situations. There would also be input from Attorney General Guidelines depending on the situation.  There is no way for me to give you an answer on that hypothetically

[Bucndoe]

35 minutes ago, AllGoodNamesRGone said:

My final thought to this post before I wrap it up, there is nothin wrong with providing information, hell i even went a step further and provided additional information suggesting these "lawmakers" don't think before signing into effect these laws.  Think of the gravity of that, thousands of LEO's in NJ legally not authorized to carry a gun because the statue reads "shall not be issued"......."To any person who has previously voluntarily admitted to inpatient treatment."    Makes sense right, nothing wrong with his comment or mine.    I guess the difference was, I don't reply with "Whats your point? You asked a question and I answered it...."  

um....geeeez,  relax,  I don't have a point, i don't need a point, i'm retired and live a stress free life.  I was just commenting on your answer like you were commenting on mine.  Maybe people have bad days, are stressed, don't like other peoples opinions, etc... I don't know.  Maybe people are offended easily?  Maybe they need the last say?   Who knows.

 

However, I did email members of the NJ Legislature and office of the Attorney General last night, requesting an amendment to N.J. S. A. 2C:58-3c as it clearly contradicts the NJ Internal Affairs Policy & Procedure along with Directive 2019-1 Officer Resiliency Directive.

 

On that note, my fat ass is going to go grab a sausage egg & cheese McMuffin, hashbrowns and medium coffee.  You all have a great day and be safe.  

The same thing happened when the high capacity magazine laws were changed from 15 to 10. At the stroke of a pen, law enforcement officers were in violation both on and off duty. It got fixed right away but it was a big issue. These things rarely get changed for civilians.

Not sure how what you mentioned will be addressed but the unintentional consequences of the legislation is rarely thought out beforehand.

[Sako76]

So how did the State find out about these voluntary commitments?  I thought medical records were covered under HIPPA?

[nmc02]

8 hours ago, mike033089 said:

I am not sure of @Bucndoe profession but anyone who’s been a member long enough knows he has a ton of knowledge (I would assume but don’t like to assume) first hand with NJ laws and firearms. While he didn’t provide an attorney he still provided facts which in a situation like this any info is good info.  Good luck to your friend, hope it gets sorted out. 

He is a bartender @ Gyps Tavern in Sandyston 

[mike033089]

2 minutes ago, nmc02 said:

He is a bartender @ Gyps Tavern in Sandyston 

Either way guy knows his stuff haha

[Bucndoe]

3 hours ago, Sako76 said:

So how did the State find out about these voluntary commitments?  I thought medical records were covered under HIPPA?

You give consent when you apply and sign the Mental Health form as a part of the permitting process.

No ticky, no laundry.

[hostak126]

The form number is SP-66. We consented when apply for the FID, PTC, and every handgun application