What’s the reason for more muzzle loader days vs shotgun

[Lunatic]

1 minute ago, NotJust22s said:

Exactly, divide and conquer 

Happy Thanksgiving 🦃 

[Lunatic]

8 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

I keep saying it like them or not there are reg sets for every one for the most part.  Don't like a b7nch of gun days hunt a zone like 21. Don't like earn a buck hunt a zone with out it.  Want antler restrictions hunt a zone with them. Don't like unlimited does hunt a zone where it's one deer per season.  I miss the days when more people hunted other game.  Duck was much bigger rabbits squirrel ect.  We have become so fixated with deer hunting we forget all that the state offers.

We have also become a population thst dosnt want to travel.  I remember buck week we went to Worthington 2 hours away now I hunt 4 different zones and travel some to hunt what I desire.  Guys complain about the cost to hunt permits etc but no qualms about a 2000 dollar cross bow or even a 200 dollar bar tab.  The reality is

 For 32.50 you can hunt most of sept and October and January and most of February that's 80  somthing days and 2 bucks and unlimited does but no one seems to realize this.  No one is forcing any one to buy permits we choose to do so

You went all over there but I agree. don’t push to restrict others when you yourself have a freedom, witting the regs, to do whatever makes you happy. 

[vdep217]

1 minute ago, Lunatic said:

You went all over there but I agree. don’t push to restrict others when you yourself have a freedom, witting the regs, to do whatever makes you happy. 

All relevant to the thread. Zone 21 ended Friday for bow there is no deer hunting till mon with muzzy.  There's even zones for those that want a break between seasons

[hammer4reel]

Just now, vdep217 said:

All relevant to the thread. Zone 21 ended Friday for bow there is no deer hunting till mon with muzzy.  There's even zones for those that want a break between seasons

The whole state would benefit from breaks in the seasons .

deer are on alert for months .

even just a week break between seasons helps .

funny how guys need hunting to be easy now .

shoot weapons that triple their effective range in a 5 month season , yet still can’t shoot as many deer as guys did when the season was only a few weeks long . With weapons they now call primitive .

and you actually had to hunt and get close to your game .

 

would be nice if the state closed all deer seasons in December .

and then had a short primitive season in January for guys that wanted to use those type of weapons .stick bows and flint locks .

 

 

[smittty]

25 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

I keep saying it like them or not there are reg sets for every one for the most part.  Don't like a b7nch of gun days hunt a zone like 21. Don't like earn a buck hunt a zone with out it.  Want antler restrictions hunt a zone with them. Don't like unlimited does hunt a zone where it's one deer per season.  I miss the days when more people hunted other game.  Duck was much bigger rabbits squirrel ect.  We have become so fixated with deer hunting we forget all that the state offers.

We have also become a population thst dosnt want to travel.  I remember buck week we went to Worthington 2 hours away now I hunt 4 different zones and travel some to hunt what I desire.  Guys complain about the cost to hunt permits etc but no qualms about a 2000 dollar cross bow or even a 200 dollar bar tab.  The reality is

 For 32.50 you can hunt most of sept and October and January and most of February that's 80  somthing days and 2 bucks and unlimited does but no one seems to realize this.  No one is forcing any one to buy permits we choose to do so

I disagree the state give us nothing. My bet is your involved with the state. But that aside we should have to buy a hunting license the end. Manage the heard with science and numbers. I better add real science and numbers and forget about what weapon is used  to harvest the animal. And the six month season is just ridiculous. You’ll never grow deer killing beautiful bucks a year and a half old then just leaving a hat full of doe”s  reproduce 

Edited November 21, 2023 by smittty

[vdep217]

2 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

The whole state would benefit from breaks in the seasons .

deer are on alert for months .

even just a week break between seasons helps .

funny how guys need hunting to be easy now .

shoot weapons that triple their effective range in a 5 month season , yet still can’t shoot as many deer as guys did when the season was only a few weeks long . With weapons they now call primitive .

and you actually had to hunt and get close to your game .

 

would be nice if the state closed all deer seasons in December .

and then had a short primitive season in January for guys that wanted to use those type of weapons .stick bows and flint locks .

 

 

I agree but what I am saying is if that's what someone wants it's there.  Like I said the regs won't appease everyone as a whole but there are zones that gives everyone at least some of what they want

[hammer4reel]

Right , guys should drive away from deer rich environments close to home .

to go to shit areas with limited regs .

.

[hammer4reel]

4 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by hammer4reel

[smittty]

2 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

I agree but what I am saying is if that's what someone wants it's there.  Like I said the regs won't appease everyone as a whole but there are zones that gives everyone at least some of what they want

It should not be about the regs it should be about the management. Regs are not there to manage the deer they are there to rake in the cash. I was I pig when I was younger kill 10-20 deer a year that was just plain wrong 

[JHbowhunter]

6 spike challenge!  Shoot a spike every tag every weapon every season. The ultimate NJ slam…. 3 bow. 2 shotgun. 1 muzzy.  
 

but the state wants more does shot but keep dangling those buck tags out there in front of y’all noses.  
 

There is no deer “management” plan in this state just a revenue plan. Been saying it for years. Weapon should not even matter. Dead is dead. Buck is buck. Doe is doe. 
 

the best management plan would be two flex buck tags at a very high premium, and unlimited does where that makes sense for FREE NO CHARGE. 

That is how you get the population in check. I bet 75% or more of the “can’t eat the horns” crowd would shoot a spike over a doe to fill their freezer.  Half of those think shooting a baby buck is a bigger accomplishment although that is false, there is no dumber deer than a 1 year old buck other than a fawn; and the other half thinks killing does is bad for the population which is pure ignorance  

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by JHbowhunter

[vdep217]

Just now, smittty said:

I disagree the state give us nothing. My bet is your involved with the state. But that aside we should have to buy a hunting license the end. Manage the heard with science and numbers. I better add real science and numbers and forget about what weapon is used  to harvest the animal. And the six month season is just ridiculous. You’ll never grow deer killing beautiful bucks a year and a half old then just leaving a hat full of doe”s  reproduce 

I am not involved with the state but I see things in reality.  You state you don't want a 6 month season. My point is  You have the option to hunt a zone that is half of that and you are only allowed one deer of either sex except buck week. 

Hunting us a management tool used to manage carrying capacity.  Large numbers of deer don't mean a healthy heard neither does big bucks.  Yes I agree there are better ways that the state could manage for both but there are a lot of factors.

We have bastardized deer hunting .  We literally came from zero deer in the state to what we have today.  I have a letter from the federation to the mayor if Lake Hurst quardinating the "stocking" of deer in the 1920s.  When I was a kid any buck taken by a hunter was celebrated but now Some people don't even post out of fear of being chastised over a younger buck.

[hammer4reel]

1 minute ago, vdep217 said:

I am not involved with the state but I see things in reality.  You state you don't want a 6 month season. My point is  You have the option to hunt a zone that is half of that and you are only allowed one deer of either sex except buck week. 

Hunting us a management tool used to manage carrying capacity.  Large numbers of deer don't mean a healthy heard neither does big bucks.  Yes I agree there are better ways that the state could manage for both but there are a lot of factors.

We have bastardized deer hunting .  We literally came from zero deer in the state to what we have today.  I have a letter from the federation to the mayor if Lake Hurst quardinating the "stocking" of deer in the 1920s.  When I was a kid any buck taken by a hunter was celebrated but now Some people don't even post out of fear of being chastised over a younger buck.

You really haven’t been hunting long .

we had 5 times the amount of deer in the 70/80 than we have today 

[vdep217]

14 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

Right , guys should drive away from deer rich environments close to home .

to go to shit areas with limited regs .

.

My question would be is it shit areas or is it less deer per square mile wich in turn limits how many deer are seen.  Take zone 51.  There are seemingly alot of deer but looking at it 51 is mostly urban in and around developments.  21 has vast amount of land for deer to wander.

[vdep217]

5 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

You really haven’t been hunting long .

we had 5 times the amount of deer in the 70/80 than we have today 

That is correct I am 36 hunting since 10.  But that disnt mean it was a healthy heard but on the flip side we have alot less habitat as well in my relatively short hunting career I have seen land dissappear to development at a shocking rate..  I can only imagine what the habitat was in the 70s and 80s.

I'm not arguing and I am actually enjoying the conversation just trying to get all points of view on the table

Edited November 22, 2023 by vdep217

[Farmingdales Finest]

53 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

You really haven’t been hunting long .

we had 5 times the amount of deer in the 70/80 than we have today 

I assume you are referring to Sussex County because the rest of the state has WAY more deer today than 40-50 years ago.  I grew up in Atlantic Highlands in the 60's-mid 80's and moved to Pa. There were NO deer here. When we moved back in 94 there were deer crossing signs. As a kid I never saw a deer at Sandy Hook today it's rare I see in a quick ride from my home in Highlands to the light house and back and see less than 10-15 and usually more like 30-50 all within what takes about 25 minutes. The only place I ever saw herds of deer larger was the mid 80's in the Delaware Water Gap. But that was also sitting in a good hunting spot not every single day.

The gap in those days had over 100 deer per square mile. I worked for David Burke while going to School for Fish and wildlife biology. He told me Monmouth county had in 1986 about 10-15 deer per square mile and a healthy heard is a maximum of 25 per square mile otherwise they cause all kinds of damage and exceed the carrying capacity. Today by me we have overall 75 plus deer per sq. mile and many areas north of 100.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Farmingdales Finest