Concerned hunters regarding unlimited doe harvesting

[DV1]

Nothing will change unless we stop buying licenses and permits.  Until then they're just laughing their way to the bank.

If they pass Tonka's Law, I know a bunch of people that will stop buying licenses..at least NJ licenses. Guy's who hunt private land and find out they have to notify neighbors 24 hours before each hunt...each property that touches the property they are hunting...will either quit, or go to public land, and that will make public land even more of a shitstorm than it already is, forcing people like me, who hunt primarily on public land, to quit as well.

 

I hunted more in NJ this year than I have in a while (outboard needed repair so no fishing for me this fall), even though I made 3 trips to Ohio and 2 to Maine, I hunted here hard between those trips with very few opportunities at anyting, and very few satisfying hunts, and I don't mean killing something; just seeing some deer and not other hunters would have been satisfying, but that didn't happen too much. At some point, it's just not worth it any longer. That point is likely different for everyone but in the past 5 or 6 years, I think I'm about at that point. If this law passes, I know I will have reached it. 

[Tarhunt]

If they pass Tonka's Law, I know a bunch of people that will stop buying licenses..at least NJ licenses. Guy's who hunt private land and find out they have to notify neighbors 24 hours before each hunt...each property that touches the property they are hunting...will either quit, or go to public land, and that will make public land even more of a shitstorm than it already is, forcing people like me, who hunt primarily on public land, to quit as well.

 

I hunted more in NJ this year than I have in a while (outboard needed repair so no fishing for me this fall), even though I made 3 trips to Ohio and 2 to Maine, I hunted here hard between those trips with very few opportunities at anyting, and very few satisfying hunts, and I don't mean killing something; just seeing some deer and not other hunters would have been satisfying, but that didn't happen too much. At some point, it's just not worth it any longer. That point is likely different for everyone but in the past 5 or 6 years, I think I'm about at that point. If this law passes, I know I will have reached it. 

Crap! I just bought my 2018 hunting license today. I should of waited.

[DV1]

My best year ever was 5 deer and I felt kinda selfish. You want meat ? Food town , shop rite etc.

 

So, not to pick on you but I have to pick on you.  The "you want meat, buy it" argument is what Corslime and liberals said to hunters way back when.   This is the general problem with hunters.  Some hold themselves as holier than the rest and feel the right to cast judgement.  Hunting was originally for sustenance maybe you forgot that, not so you can put a rack on the wall.  Your argument is the one the anti's use against us so it feeds into their narrative but you wouldn't know that because you are focused on your wants and not focused on supporting the right to hunt for all hunters.   Just understand the bus you are throwing people under now may be the same one that runs you over. 

 

 

The problem with your position is that there aren't enough deer for everyone to kill a freezer full. I completely agree with hunting for meat, but it can't be that you want to kill enough to avoid buying anything else. If you think horn hunters are being greedy because they want to deprive others of killing a small buck so they can kill a big one, what do you think about people that want to kill so many deer they don't have to buy any meat, depriving other hunters of killing even one or two deer? Greed is greed, whether it's for antler size or full freezers.

[DV1]

Crap! I just bought my 2018 hunting license today. I should of waited.

Nah, I've seen your trail cam pics, you have plenty of deer, I think you're good. 

[stratocaster]

The problem with your position is that there aren't enough deer for everyone to kill a freezer full. I completely agree with hunting for meat, but it can't be that you want to kill enough to avoid buying anything else. If you think horn hunters are being greedy because they want to deprive others of killing a small buck so they can kill a big one, what do you think about people that want to kill so many deer they don't have to buy any meat, depriving other hunters of killing even one or two deer? Greed is greed, whether it's for antler size or full freezers.

I think you are stretching my argument a bit too far.  Freezer fulls of meat is a bit much, although some guys do it.  You are also implying that by following the law one is being greedy, I would argue logically that it is not.  I may not agree with a hunter who fills every tag, permit etc.. but they are following the law.  I also have no problem with a hunter holding out for the buck of his choice as he should have no problem with someone who doesn't. 

 

But the idea of hunting to put some meat in the freezer is not abnormal is what I'm saying in addition to understanding that the anti's will use any reason to argue against our right to hunt.  Some guys don't shoot any deer but just want a reason to be in the woods.  I was simply arguing against the simplistic idea of "you want meat, go to Foodtown, Shoprite".  

[stratocaster]

Crap! I just bought my 2018 hunting license today. I should of waited.

I'm glad I did not buy any 2018 license yet, especially fishing. 

[Rdfhunter]

Nothing will change unless we stop buying licenses and permits.  Until then they're just laughing their way to the bank.

Brilliant idea ,,, underfund the F&G ...

[DV1]

I think you are stretching my argument a bit too far.  Freezer fulls of meat is a bit much, although some guys do it.  You are also implying that by following the law one is being greedy, I would argue logically that it is not.  I may not agree with a hunter who fills every tag, permit etc.. but they are following the law.  I also have no problem with a hunter holding out for the buck of his choice as he should have no problem with someone who doesn't. 

 

But the idea of hunting to put some meat in the freezer is not abnormal is what I'm saying in addition to understanding that the anti's will use any reason to argue against our right to hunt.  Some guys don't shoot any deer but just want a reason to be in the woods.  I was simply arguing against the simplistic idea of "you want meat, go to Foodtown, Shoprite".  

You can certainly be greedy by following the law. The law allows a hunter to kill over 30 deer in my area. Knowing that there are basically 2 deer for every one hunter, if you are killing 5, 6 or 10 deer a year, you are being greedy because those deer are now gone and other hunters don't have a chance to kill them. Even moreso on public land. If someone is filling all the tags the law allows on public land, without regard for the others who hunt there, yeah, absolutely being greedy. Greed has to do with what you need vs what you want, the law makes no such distinction. Being lawful can absolutely also be greedy.

 

One thing I always find interesting about this point, counter-point stuff is the so-called "meat hunters" always say horn hunters are being greedy or forcing people to hunt they way they want them to hunt, while completely ignoring that by forcing horn hunters to hunt under a system that caters to meat hunters instead of what they want, meat hunters are forcing horn hunters to hunt as they (meat hunters) want. It's a two way street. If the regs favor the mature deer hunter, than the shoot anything crowd is being "forced" to hunt as they horn hunter wants, true. But it's also true that when the regs favor the shoot anything crowd, the "meat hunters" are forcing their way of hunting on everyoine else as well. Many seem to forget that. 

 

Just for clarification, my intense trophy hunting phase is over. I still like to hunt for a mature buck but I also hunt for venison pastrami, tacos, fajita's, chili, roasts, backstraps, goulash, curry, cheese steaks, etc. I don't really care if someone shoots a small buck but if they shoot more than 2 bucks, even though it's legal, I believe that's being greedy, sorry. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by DV1

[tcook8296]

All the hunting regs and bag limits need to be redone.

Start with nonresidents, their licenses and tags need to go up. This is done in states all over and is expected by hunters traveling out of state. Bag limit 2 bucks one with a bow and one with a firearm as well as an option to purchase 1 doe tag with each. Bear tags are ridiculous but you wont be hunting them for a long time now. Resident buck tags should be 2 also and purchase a doe tag for every doe taken. Unlimited needs to stop. The state needs to look at each zone individually and maybe even break it down to more specific problem areas but the one size fits all doesnt work any more. Our seasons are way too long. Start the bow season from Oct 1 until Oct 31 with permit bow Nov 1 until Thanksgiving day and get rid of early season. Get rid of early doe days before 6 day. What a stupid idea. Early 2 day muzzy needs to go. I like a few day break between bow and gun season. 6 day is the start of gun season. December,3 additional gun doe days for shotgun,the remainder of December muzzleloader. All gun hunting done by Jan 15th. Winter bow the month of January. Driving on state land over.

I am also ok with ending baiting, a seperate crossbow season and and as a property owner, no problem with the bow safety zone back to 450'

Edited December 19, 2017 by tcook8296

[Lunatic]

Where we get nowhere as a community is our inability to stay focus. Just read this tread and the ideas we have and ask yourself are they all for improving the quality of hunting or just to change things for personal preference. Example: Season is too long, there should be no hunting after ### day, there should be no hunting in September since its too hot for me or we shouldn't kill does after October..............Why even think of this type of restrictions? It is about limiting the number of deer killed so why ask for a limit, 2 bucks and 3 does for the entire season, and then ask for other restriction driven by nothing else but personal preference?  

[JHbowhunter]

Where we get nowhere as a community is our inability to stay focus. Just read this tread and the ideas we have and ask yourself are they all for improving the quality of hunting or just to change things for personal preference. Example: Season is too long, there should be no hunting after ### day, there should be no hunting in September since its too hot for me or we shouldn't kill does after October..............Why even think of this type of restrictions? It is about limiting the number of deer killed so why ask for a limit, 2 bucks and 3 does for the entire season, and then ask for other restriction driven by nothing else but personal preference?  

 

As much as I would like to make it all about me and my way of hunting, my proposal simply just separates revenue from management, and eliminating the ridiculous tag and permit system we have now. A common-sense approach that gives the hunter the freedom to choose when and how they hunt and unites the meat hunter with the bone hunter in perfect harmony.  If well-executed, it could actually increase revenue and provide better management of the resource.

[DV1]

Where we get nowhere as a community is our inability to stay focus. Just read this tread and the ideas we have and ask yourself are they all for improving the quality of hunting or just to change things for personal preference. Example: Season is too long, there should be no hunting after ### day, there should be no hunting in September since its too hot for me or we shouldn't kill does after October..............Why even think of this type of restrictions? It is about limiting the number of deer killed so why ask for a limit, 2 bucks and 3 does for the entire season, and then ask for other restriction driven by nothing else but personal preference?  

Season length directly impacts the number of deer killed, so if you want to cut back on the number of deer killed, you cut back on the number of days you can kill them. So, while it may seem as though it's just a personal preference, it's also an important factor in adjusting the season's take. 

[Livesintrees]

I’m gonna say it.....I’m wearing my riot gear.....Do away with the baiting. If you want more natural deer movement across the board it has to go. Otherwise with enough guys in the woods the deer have zero reason to move past your stands till after dark. Just my opinion.

[JHbowhunter]

I’m gonna say it.....I’m wearing my riot gear.....Do away with the baiting. If you want more natural deer movement across the board it has to go. Otherwise with enough guys in the woods the deer have zero reason to move past your stands till after dark. Just my opinion.

 

It would be a game-changer for sure. That's a hard genie to put back in the bottle

[Lunatic]

Season length directly impacts the number of deer killed, so if you want to cut back on the number of deer killed, you cut back on the number of days you can kill them. So, while it may seem as though it's just a personal preference, it's also an important factor in adjusting the season's take. 

 

 

You  set the season limit to let say, 2 buck and 3 does. How is anyone taking more legally, even if we made the season last 8 months? The bag limit is what controls the number of deer taken. If you think 2+3 is too much then you reduce the number instead of limiting my opportunities to hunt when I want to hunt.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Lunatic