Great debate about incidental take of coyote/foxes while deer hunting!

[GhostBear]

Ok, so I was lurking over at NJH, and saw a debate about the incidental take of fox and coyote while hunting deer, and the question came up about while baiting deer and sitting over it as allowed, would you then be allowed to take a fox or coyote? As else where's he rules say baiting FOR fox and coyote is a no no.

 

The issue is can you shoot a fox/coyote while hunting DEER over bait? As in incidental, the contention is no you can't since there is bait on the ground. Thoughts? I say you are legal as you are NOT baiting fox, but following the DEER regs, that allow baiting for deer.

[JimmyScags]

I mean would fox and coyote even be interested in a corn pile? I'm thinking they mean using carcasses and entrails as bait for predators.

[Nomad]

Shoot em.  If you are hunting for deer you can take a coyote or fox.  Don't over analyze it. 

[Haskell_Hunter]

The elevator doesn't go to the top floor over there.

[Woodsman416]

I have seen fox eating corn but the things that fox and coyotes eat, squirrels, mice, chipmunks, doves etc are attracted to the bait. I think you can shoot them but not on Sunday.

[3Blade]

My "thoughts"....shootem  up, end of story!

Edited September 3, 2017 by 3 Blade

[GhostBear]

The elevator doesn't go to the top floor over there.

i agree, but there are some good points to go either way, as the regulation reads it says that a licensed deer hunter cand take a fox/coyote incidental to deer hunting, the contention come from the baiting regulation for deer, some are saying since you are baiting you can't shoot a fox should it come in, since it's not a deer, as it says the only bait you can sit directly over is for deer. Some are saying the baiting provision is what makes the incidental take illegal.

[tuny]

The big argument is whether you can shoot anything other than deer over bait and the answer is NO. The old baiting law was never taken off the books ,but was augmented by the next law which stated that the hunting over bait law did not apply to deer hunters. The old law still holds, look up 23:4-24.2 and 23:4-24.4 for clarification.  

[GhostBear]

The regulation says "incidental" to deer hunting. There in lay the issue, if you go by the regulation for incidental take you're legal, guess they need to clear that up a bit more, but since I don't bait anyway it doesn't apply to me anyway! Lol

[tuny]

That basically means that if you are for example a stander on a drive and a yote or fox comes out you can shoot it, but you have to be legally hunting deer at the time. That change came about we people were part of a drive for deer after they killed their deer and claimed they were hunting yotes.

[Rusty]

Shoot em.  If you are hunting for deer you can take a coyote or fox.  Don't over analyze it. 

 

 

[BowhunterNJ]

Incidental to deer hunting is legal.  If you are hunting deer legally, then you can shoot them.

[GhostBear]

That basically means that if you are for example a stander on a drive and a yote or fox comes out you can shoot it, but you have to be legally hunting deer at the time. That change came about we people were part of a drive for deer after they killed their deer and claimed they were hunting yotes.

right, you have to be "legally" hunting deer at the time, which just so happens to include the rule that you can sit over bait legally while deer hunting, yes? By that same regulation regarding incidental take you'd be legal to shoot a fox incidentally to legally deer hunting, with or with out bait being present is my understanding of the regulation.

[buckhound]

i took someone to take the  hunting test  and  that was part of a discusion during the test about 7 years ago and what i remember is as long as you are hunting deer legal you can shoot a fox or coyote first.. but if you want to be sure give  F&G a call....

[Rdfhunter]

Incidental to deer hunting is legal.  If you are hunting deer legally, then you can shoot them.

As per 2017 regulations:

 

"Pursuant to NJSA 23:4-24.2, no person shall kill,destroy, injure, shoot, shoot at, take, wound, or attempt to take, kill or wound a game bird or game animal, or have in possession or control any firearmor other weapon of any kind, while elevated in a standing tree, or in a structure of any kind within300 feet of a baited area."

Show us where it says except while deer hunting... You can shoot ducks while you're pheasent hunting so that must mean you can use lead.