Hatch charts for Central NJ streams

[nmc02]

6 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

I would strongly disagree with this. Euro nymphing which is all the rage is the single most effective way to catch trout on nymphs and no bobber is used. I prefer tight line nymphing myself, and I won’t use an indicator because you miss too many subtle strikes. But when teaching a newer fly angler, I will always start them off with an indicator.  Even then, I watch them get strike after strike without setting the hook. If they only knew how often they ignored a trout’s take, they’d quit right then and there.  

When you were guiding, you did not teach new fly fisherman to use an indicator when nymphing???? 

[gregtpal]

Tight line nymphing wo an indicator is what i typically go to early season.  You can get the nymph deep & drag free with an upstream cast.   learn the 1 handed retrieve.  its very simple & easy to learn and you will feel most strikes.

Not traditional but Salmon egg flies work surprisingly well, especially on stocked fish

[kohunter]

Salmon egg flies? You have corn flies too?

[troutbumbrian]

On 3/2/2023 at 1:20 PM, Bucksnbows said:

Ah yes, that famous trout club hatch, Pelletis troutis.

A couple years ago I got invited to fish at the warren rod and gun club on the Musky. That was something else. 2 miles of absolute tank fish everywhere and every couple hours the alarm goes off for the feeders and the trout know what time it is.  It was a super fun day but I've since come to dislike it.  In my opinion no one should be allowed to own sections of the river. And not only are the feeders keeping their fish in the area - they are also likely bringing fish not stocked by them into that one section and I doubt they're leaving with the abundance of pellets everyday. 

[Nomad]

1 hour ago, troutbumbrian said:

A couple years ago I got invited to fish at the warren rod and gun club on the Musky. That was something else. 2 miles of absolute tank fish everywhere and every couple hours the alarm goes off for the feeders and the trout know what time it is.  It was a super fun day but I've since come to dislike it.  In my opinion no one should be allowed to own sections of the river. And not only are the feeders keeping their fish in the area - they are also likely bringing fish not stocked by them into that one section and I doubt they're leaving with the abundance of pellets everyday. 

Should be able to walk the stream up to the high water mark, like some states.

[hammer4reel]

39 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Should be able to walk the stream up to the high water mark, like some states.

State Test of Navigability

New Jersey uses the common law ebb and flow doctrine to determine whether waters and the lands beneath them are public or private.¹⁾ Accordingly, waters in which the tide ebbs and flows and the lands beneath them, “so far only as the sea flows and reflows,” are deemed public regardless of the navigability of the water.²⁾ Such tidal waters and lands are subject to a public trust, which encompasses not only navigation but also fishing, swimming, and other lawful uses by the public.³⁾ The principles of the common law ebb and flow doctrine are so well settled in New Jersey that at least one court deemed a citation of authorities on the subject unnecessary.⁴⁾ Case law appears to suggest that the public has a right to cross privately owned land in order to gain reasonable access to tidal waters.⁵⁾

Non-tidal waters with no ebb and flow of the tide and the lands beneath them are deemed private.⁶⁾ The public may use non-tidal waters only for purposes of navigation if the waters are navigable-in-fact.⁷⁾ The public may not use non-tidal waters for other purposes, such as fishing, without the owners' consent.⁸⁾ Cases do not appear to specify the extent to which the public may use navigable, non-tidal waters for navigation, i.e., whether the allowed public use is limited to commercial shipping or extends to recreational navigation such as boating. Also, at least one case suggests that most tidal rivers in New Jersey are also navigable, and the navigable rivers are generally tidal with the exception of the Delaware River above Trenton.⁹⁾

Extent of Public Rights in Navigable and Non-Navigable Rivers

The public has the right to use tidal waters that pass the ebb and flow test and lands beneath them for any lawful purpose, including boating, fishing, and swimming.¹⁰⁾ These rights stem from the public trust doctrine and are subject to regulation by the Legislature, which has the absolute power over such tidal waters and lands.¹¹⁾ Thus, arguments can be made that the rights of the public to use the tidal waters can be limited or regulated only by acts of assembly.

The public does not have any right to use non-navigable, non-tidal waters absent consent by the owners.¹²⁾ With respect to navigable non-tidal waters, the public may use them only for the purpose of navigation.¹³⁾ However, the public may not use them for other purposes such as fishing.¹⁴⁾

[Nomad]

Michigan you can walk any stream up to the high water mark and even higher if you have to go around any obstacles.  

[gregtpal]

11 hours ago, kohunter said:

Salmon egg flies? You have corn flies too?

They would probably work.

[Bucksnbows]

17 hours ago, nmc02 said:

Matter of fact, could not disagree more. Most guys can't euro nymph....takes a lot of practice and the right water. Using an indicator helps all levels of nymph fisherman see the subtle bites, as well as slams. Even euro nymphers are Using in line coils as an indicator. The best euro nymph fisherman I ever saw was Loren Williams....you won't find a better euro nymph fisherman 

https://www.lwflies.com/welcome

So now you agree with me. You’re talking about a “sighter”. Yes, same idea as a strike indicator, but nothing is on the line providing drag like a foam or plastic strike indicator.  You can Euro (tight line) nymph ANY water. Stick to tuna because you have no idea what you’re talking about. If people were using strike indicators like we have been talking about, why are zero used in competition? If they were better for all anglers, as you said, wouldn’t the best be using them? The fact that they are not proves that you are wrong. Forget that I have been flyfishing for 51 years and was head guide of a stable of guides out of Shannon’s Fly Shop for seven years and have been guiding for over 25. 

[Live to Hunt]

All I know is nothing about fly fishing 🤭

[MikeStaten]

Here’s a pretty good article/video on euro nymphing and the leaders used.   I now use this setup with a long heavy maxima mono leader so the fly line really never leaves the reel.  I’m no pro using this technique but it’s been effective for me and I’ve caught fish when the hit was so subtle that I doubt I would’ve noticed it using an indicator.  There are also areas with a lot of pocket water where using traditional indicators is tough if not impossible.  That said, I do still use indicators sometimes and it is effective too.   Using the euro technique is way easier with a long dedicated rod for it.  I’m using a 10’ or a 10’9” rod for this.   https://news.orvis.com/fly-fishing/video-how-to-fish-nymphs-with-a-sighter

[bucky]

16 hours ago, troutbumbrian said:

A couple years ago I got invited to fish at the warren rod and gun club on the Musky. That was something else. 2 miles of absolute tank fish everywhere and every couple hours the alarm goes off for the feeders and the trout know what time it is.  It was a super fun day but I've since come to dislike it.  In my opinion no one should be allowed to own sections of the river. And not only are the feeders keeping their fish in the area - they are also likely bringing fish not stocked by them into that one section and I doubt they're leaving with the abundance of pellets everyday. 

Agreed, I fished there for 20 years with guess passes, then the farmers on the opposite side of the river sold to the township for use as open space and in turn the township sold the club a strip of land along the river so they could keep people out. And yes, the feeders are pathetic, but its amazing to watch the bluefish blitz when the feeders go off

Edited March 4, 2023 by bucky

[nmc02]

4 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

So now you agree with me. You’re talking about a “sighter”. Yes, same idea as a strike indicator, but nothing is on the line providing drag like a foam or plastic strike indicator.  You can Euro (tight line) nymph ANY water. Stick to tuna because you have no idea what you’re talking about. If people were using strike indicators like we have been talking about, why are zero used in competition? If they were better for all anglers, as you said, wouldn’t the best be using them? The fact that they are not proves that you are wrong. Forget that I have been flyfishing for 51 years and was head guide of a stable of guides out of Shannon’s Fly Shop for seven years and have been guiding for over 25. 

A sighter is an indicator. I guess we can agree to disagree. If I am nymph fishing, I am using a fish pimp indicator. Most people nymph fishing are using some sort of indicator, even if you want to call it a "sighter." Maybe you don't, but most do. My point is the average fly fisherman (most guys) are fishing indicators, especially beginners. Euro/Czech nymphing is an advanced technique. 

Here is a good article that explains when to not use an indicator. 

https://flyfishingfix.com/do-you-need-a-strike-indicator/

Edited March 4, 2023 by nmc02