Who do you like for a presidential candidate and why?

[BowhunterNJ]

The interesting thing about Trump isn't Trump.  He's the face of his business and creates an image of being a shrewd businessman.  But it's just an image.

 

Trump is a good manager, and he has surrounded himself with a team that is incredibly effective.  It's his ability to build a team of lieutenants and his obsession with accountability that is his differentiator.

 

What does this mean if he becomes president?  Lots.  He will generate a ton of media air time and the people he brings unto the government will create a set of accountability expectations that will be unheard of in the history of government.  Government employees will no longer get promoted if they lose $50B or be able to retire if they use the IRS as a weapon.

 

It's that paradigm that the establishment is afraid of--being held accountable.  And that's what Trump may bring to the table by hiring lieutenants who are ruthless business people with an obsessive drive toward accountability.

 

I still won't vote for a Republican or Democrat.

If you believe a candidate can change the government for the better of the American people, why wouldn't you vote for them, regardless of their party? If you're waiting for an Independent, and would otherwise pass on a candidate that is only running under the cloak of a party to get in office (IMO both Trump and Bernie are), then you are missing the opportunity to support the change you want and by not voting are only perpetuating what's there now.

[Haskell_Hunter]

If you believe a candidate can change the government for the better of the American people, why wouldn't you vote for them, regardless of their party? If you're waiting for an Independent, and would otherwise pass on a candidate that is only running under the cloak of a party to get in office (IMO both Trump and Bernie are), then you are missing the opportunity to support the change you want and by not voting are only perpetuating what's there now.

 

 

I am voting, just not for a Republican or Democrat.  Those political parties need to have their power taken away with the rise of one or more political parties.

 

Also note that the President is there to execute the laws.  The position cannot create new laws.  So you won't change government much by being president, but you will change it by forcing Democrats and Republicans to compromise with another political party to gain any kind of voting majority.  The two-party system is a failure.  It may have worked in the past, but the only way to change government is by reducing the power and influence of both Democrats and Republicans.

[BowhunterNJ]

The problem is, no Independent has a real chance of winning. Bernie came close in the past, but a Democrat essentially "spoiled" his chance of winning. Other than that, I'm not sure we will ever see a majority of voters go away from Democrat and/or Republican to the point where an Independent can beat both. That's why both Bernie and Trump are trying to cut off those respective parties and eliminate their competition. Both *would* run as an Independent, but both realize Dems and Reps will vote their line regardless of the candidate and those are votes they can't ignore and are worth trying to grab if their objective is to actually become POTUS.

 

I do get what you're saying, but I'm not sure how long it would take to have that happen. We've been living with this political system being broken for decades, and in that time it hasn't happened. So why not take the shortcut and get a candidate in there that can start that change process regardless of party affiliation...unless you just don't believe a current candidate can do that. If the latter is the case, then you still need a candidate that can help provide the change you (and many others) seek.

[Haskell_Hunter]

The problem is, no Independent has a real chance of winning.

 

...

 

So why not take the shortcut...

 

 

THIS is what needs to change.  You're buying into the Democrat and Republican narrative, and that's why we never see change.  And you just told me to take a shortcut! (Typical coder...no wonder your code is riddled with bugs...)

 

Yes, voters have the power.  Go out and vote.  Just don't vote for a Democrat or a Republican.  That's where change starts, and I advocate for change with my vote.

[BowhunterNJ]

Who is going to change it? Who is going to organize that change?

Don't you think Bernie has been trying to do that for decades already?

And now as a Democrat he actually is being "heard" and supported in mass?

The party IMO is semantics, it's what that representative does that matters.

The whole political system needs an overhaul, but voting for a running Independent won't do it, it never has historically and nothing indicates that will change.

 

The "shortcut" is in the interest of time and effectiveness. Otherwise you are just sitting on principle and never going to actually execute your plan. Bernie can run as an Independent for another 20 years and LOSE, or he can run as a Democrat preaching the SAME stuff and WIN (at least the nomination, and maybe the presidency). Likewise with Trump, running Independent will likely lose the race for him because he has to give up votes to Republican line voters.

 

What you're actually asking is for the people to change, but that is a very slow change over time, and the current political landscape you see is the initiation of that change. The reality is, it doesn't matter what party gets into office if that politicians acts on behalf of the people. The real problem is, 99.9% of politicians don't do that...and it has nothing to do with the party, it has to do with the individual politician.

[Haskell_Hunter]

I've voting libertarian, as noted above.  IMHO, they are the most mainstream party, and you'll notice that both the Democrats and Republicans try to paint libertarians as radicals because of the threat the party has of taking all of their moderate voters away and further radicalizing the parties.  I may not be for all of the crazy things libertarians are for (notice I am using the lower case "l" for a reason), but in a nutshell they are pro-liberties, small government.  There are a tremendous amount of voters who relate to those two basic principals.  It means more power to the people and less to the government.  More social freedoms, and less taxes.  Isn't that what the majority want?

 

The radicals on the left and right can have their parties, I prefer one that makes sense.  But I retain the right to maintain my independent voter status.

 

Ever notice how the primaries keep all other political parties out of the political process all the while giving an absurd amount of media time to the two political parties.  How other political parties cannot dip into funds available for running their campaigns, unlike the two political parties.  The entire system is designed to preserve only to political parties and that intentionally reduces the options most Americans have in the political process.  Our political system was hijacked and we're being held hostage.

[not on the rug]

Right. Voting for Trump or Bernie does, in fact, change the system. They have to seek a party nomination to have any real chance of winning.  Neither one would even get looked at if they ran as an Independent, yet both have a real chance of presidency as a Republican or Democrat.  That is where the change will occur.  These guys both have a true interest in the people, albeit from different perspectives.  I think real change (perhaps some positive and some negative) could actually come from electing either of these guys and the only way they could possibly get in to office is the path they're taking. At this point in time, and it may hopefully change in the future, a vote for an independent is a vote for nobody. The change you want to make Haskell has to be done this way and not your way.  It's impossible to do it your way 

[Haskell_Hunter]

Again, I disagree.  You're buying into the flawed logic that you must continue to elect from one of two parties.  If people started voting outside of those parties, the system would change.

 

The office of the President is a distraction, and intentionally so.  The parties make the voters think the president has power, which he does not.  If third party candidates were voted into Congress and the Senate, that's where reform will happen.  The president does nothing other than sign bills into law.

 

Change starts with voting out incumbents in Congress and the Senate, not the office of the president.

[BowhunterNJ]

The problem is, the general public don't get enough insight into libertarians as you mentioned yourself via the media restrictions. So how do you promote them enough to where they can actually get voted into office? What you're attempting to do is radical (even if it is correct), and as such unlikely to gain enough traction to really happen. You're letting your principles stand in the way of actual progress given the system as it exists today.

 

The President does far more than just sign bills into laws. Imagine if either Trump or Bernie stepped into office with the goal of instituting change. What if they replaced (as they can appoint) every ill suited politician with someone who could actually get something done in that position. Perhaps it's far fetched, but if it were true and possible, then they are doing far more than just signing bills, they are putting people in positions to effectively make changes versus those who are in them now blocking all the change.

 

It's small steps...Congress will never get majority overhauled simultaneously whereas third party candidates replace them. It will be a slower process than that, and getting someone with those SAME ideals as POTUS can go a long way towards starting to get that ball rolling...and in fact would be FAR more effective than getting lone Congressman into office over time. Just like Bernie has been blocked by the majority for DECADES, so will other Congressmen and women until they are the majority. Being POTUS makes it possible to make that transition a lot quicker IF AND ONLY IF the POTUS is on a mission to do so. Thus far historically, and we are in agreement (and even Bernie and Trump would agree), traditional politics for Dems and Reps has blocked all attempts to change the current system because it hurts those whom are already in power and have a direct interest in keeping things the way they are (Hi Hillary and your ties to Wall Street and your SuperPACS...along with every other candidate on both sides of the fence).

 

Just my .02, but I'm trying to see the forest for the trees.

[smoking gun]

I think I'm going to run for president the next time I can get people to vote for me I made up a bunch of stuff and came up with ideas that would work

[not on the rug]

Agree with bowhunter NJ. While what Haskell is saying may be correct in theory and what we all actually want, in practice it won't work and has to work the other way. Which brings us back to voting for trump or bernie (depending on your leanings) as the only viable option in the upcoming election. At this point in time, everything else would be a wasted vote

[smoking gun]

They're all in the lobbyist pockets but usually voting for one who favors your ideas and point of views are usually the one who you would root for....who in their right frame of mind would buy any of hillary or Bernies bullshit like serious.all they do is adopt new tax codes throw the rights of people out the window for their agenda and feed the poor people garbage just to buy votes.serious how the hell is anyone gonna get free college I guess tax everyone 90 percent of their earnings...haha a recipe for a serious civil uprising I don't even want to get started on that miserable ₩£#@ sucking ^$@&£ SHE SHOULD BE INDICTED AND BARRED FROM POLITICS THE MEDIA IS HELL BENT ON CRUZ AND TRUMPS PERSONAL LOAN AND BANKRUPT FILES HOW BOUT WE LET THE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT HILLARYS EMAIL SCANDALS I'M VERY CURIOUS AND WANT TO KNOW I'M A TAXPAYING CITIZEN SHE'S AN EMPLOYEE OF THE TAXPAYER NOT THE QUEEN

Edited February 6, 2016 by smoking gun

[Haskell_Hunter]

Good article on the libertarian movement.  Note that they say most young people today have libertarian-leaning views, so it is growing.  It's not far fetched to think that this block of voters will change the political landscape within our lives, or even the next 15 years.

 

http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/04/with-rand-pauls-exit-has-the-libertarian

[Zipper]

None of them. I am against both the Democrat and Republican parties. I think both parties need to be removed from power as they've hijacked American politics for their own good and not for the good of the people. I will never again vote for a Democrat or Republican. I do not consider it throwing a vote away, but instead it should be seen as a vote of confidence against both political parties. It is the first shot in the next American Revolution.

If you want to make both parties head explode it's Ted Cruz for President. He's the most feared and hated man by all the current political hacks in there now.

Trump is getting support from Politicos because they said they could work deals with him. What does that tell you? Mitch McConnell the Republican turncoat who is funding Obama’s agenda was called out by Cruz. McConnell has threatened all senators from endorsing Cruz. That's all I need to know.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Zipper

[Axiom]

 

honestly none of them I think they all blow

 

Honestly, So do I... I'm with Haskell. I dislike both the Democrat and Republican parties.. However, Since all the "other" parties tend to promote loons who are to radical or fixated on stupid stuff, we have to choose between the lesser of a bunch of evils,, I usually vote Republican... Actually, I've always voted Republican when it comes too the presidency...

 

As of now I haven't give'n my vote to anyone however, I have ruled out a few candidates.. Saunders is OUT cause he's a communist and a democrat... Hillary is OUT and was never even remotely "in".. The fact that she is in the position she's in because she was highly touted as a victim of a horney husband by the press makes me think the voting public are a bunch of dumb a$$es....  And her photo ops lately with her arms spread wide open in what appears to be some kind of subliminal " come to mommy" gestural hypnosis if you will, attempt of some sort really gets under my skin.. I'm mean, just how STUPID can the American Public be.. Most of the rest of the world already thinks the American people are stupid. Do we have to keep proving it?.. Ol' Trump is OUT.. Anyone who thinks he's out to do anything other than Line his already deep pockets and get laid by hot young white house interns or any other star struck young female is sadly mistake'n.. Oh yeah I enjoy his " your not doing your job so YOUR FIRED" philosophy... The white house does need a leader with that kind of approach.. BUT, I see more bad than good with him... I believe he'll drive this country into bankruptcy as he has done with a # of his own businesses,  and walk away richer than he was before he took office.. And have a few more notches in his bed post if you know what I mean..

 

As of now i'm leaning towards` Cruz.. Why?.. Not even sure.. He just strikes me as a well rounded professional well suited for the job.. But I aint committed yet..