Thank God for the Affordable Care Act

[vdep217]

4 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Obamacare/Affordable Care Act is NOT government insurance. It is private insurance companies offering insurance under an exchange. It is underwritten by the Federal Gov't to allow for people that could not ordinarily afford insurance to get some. Millions more people are insured today than previous to the ACA.  The concept was that competition would drive down costs and by forcing everyone to be insured (or pay a penalty), was better than hospitals giving out charity care. It was modelled after the law that Mitt Romney enacted when he was Governor of Massachusetts. 

Is it perfect? NO. But no one has come up with better! 

And there is no better.  It was better being a free market where competition kept prices competitive.   Now with mandates etc they can charge what they want n doctors know that.  Get stitches use insurance 2 grand pay out of pocket 6 or 700

[archer36]

2 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

And there is no better.  It was better being a free market where competition kept prices competitive.   Now with mandates etc they can charge what they want n doctors know that.  Get stitches use insurance 2 grand pay out of pocket 6 or 700

That's a matter of opinion. The greatest increases in healthcare costs (until now) occurred during the years of the G W Bush administration. I worked in the private sector at the time, and we went from having ALL of our benefits FREE to having to choose between HMO's or Private Insurance, all with a cost to employees. It got more and more expensive every year after that. So much for a "free" market. 

[vdep217]

1 minute ago, archer36 said:

That's a matter of opinion. The greatest increases in healthcare costs (until now) occurred during the years of the G W Bush administration. I worked in the private sector at the time, and we went from having ALL of our benefits FREE to having to choose between HMO's or Private Insurance, all with a cost to employees. It got more and more expensive every year after that. So much for a "free" market. 

Obviously when some cost was passed to employees it went up.  Free market disnt mean free.  They are trying to push universal health care.  Talk to any one in Canada how that's working out the government basically chooses who lives n dies.  Those that are able seek medical help here out of pocket.  I have several close family friends who live in canada

[archer36]

5 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

Obviously when some cost was passed to employees it went up.  Free market disnt mean free.  They are trying to push universal health care.  Talk to any one in Canada how that's working out the government basically chooses who lives n dies.  Those that are able seek medical help here out of pocket.  I have several close family friends who live in canada

Every modern industrialized nation has Socialized Medicine to some degree. We are the last to have this illusion of a free-market system that's supposed to keep costs down. We spend 2-3 times more for inferior healthcare than some of those countries. 

No system is perfect. People are dying and going bankrupt every day because of healthcare costs in the U.S. We have no right to judge other countries. Speak to the citizens of some and they will tell you they are very happy. Some not so much. Don't you hear people crying here? That's what the thread is about. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by archer36

[OldMenRule]

28 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Every modern industrialized nation has Socialized Medicine to some degree. We are the last to have this illusion of a free-market system that's supposed to keep costs down. We spend 2-3 times more for inferior healthcare than some of those countries. 

No system is perfect. People are dying and going bankrupt every day because of healthcare costs in the U.S. We have no right to judge other countries. Speak to the citizens of some and they will tell you they are very happy. Some not so much. Don't you hear people crying here? That's what the thread is about. 

Inferior healthcare. It's corrupt, over regulated, over burdened but far from inferior. People are dying in those modernized countries you so fondly speak of waiting for basic care so spare me with how bad healthcare is in the United States.

     

[archer36]

You see the U.S. anywhere in this list?

"Japan is, at 84.3 years, the country with the highest life expectancy."

Índice()

What are the countries with the longest life expectancy?

20. Germany: 81.7

19. Netherlands: 81.8

18. Ireland: 81.8

17. Malta: 81.9

16. New Zealand: 82.0

15. Canada: 82.2

14. Iceland: 82.3

13. Sweden: 82.4

12. Luxembourg: 82.4

11. France: 82.5

10. Israel: 82.6

9. Italy: 83.0

8. Australia: 83.0

7. Cyprus: 83.1

6. Spain: 83.2

5. Singapore: 83.2

4. South Korea: 83.3

3. Norway: 83.3

2. Switzerland: 83.4

1. Japan: 84.3

Edited October 30, 2022 by archer36

[vdep217]

I see Canada listed and I can tell you for a fact that it's citizens are coming here for alot of health care.  There are waits as long as 4 5 6 years to see a doctor.  While Healthcare plays a small role in life expectancy it is minimal.   The us is of the most unhealthy population in the world leading in obesity and heart disease.  Just our population relying on fast food knocks life expectancy down.

Before you give credit to health care look at the life style.   The us is far from inferior health care and some of those countries people are still dying regularly of basic needs and the  so look at all facts instead of a snap shot

Edited October 30, 2022 by vdep217

[Batsto]

1 hour ago, archer36 said:

You see the U.S. anywhere in this list?

"Japan is, at 84.3 years, the country with the highest life expectancy."

Índice()

What are the countries with the longest life expectancy?

20. Germany: 81.7

19. Netherlands: 81.8

18. Ireland: 81.8

17. Malta: 81.9

16. New Zealand: 82.0

15. Canada: 82.2

14. Iceland: 82.3

13. Sweden: 82.4

12. Luxembourg: 82.4

11. France: 82.5

10. Israel: 82.6

9. Italy: 83.0

8. Australia: 83.0

7. Cyprus: 83.1

6. Spain: 83.2

5. Singapore: 83.2

4. South Korea: 83.3

3. Norway: 83.3

2. Switzerland: 83.4

1. Japan: 84.3

What’s the common denominators in your list? Lack of Diversity, small and control. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Batsto

[JFC1]

6 hours ago, Rjtfd said:

The medical cost associated with every single procedure is criminal. What doctors do to pad their cost is what drives insurance premiums. Example. I’m going for routine colonoscopy but before I can book the colonoscopy (same doctor as last one) I have to do a virtual consultation first. Then he tells me ok call the nurse and book the procedure. I’m sure he billed insurance as an “office visit” plus again for procedure. I had to have COVID test also one week prior which could only be done at his office by his nurse. I can only imagine what the bill of my colonoscopy is when complete. This is the norm with most of not all doctors right now. I’ve been going to HSS for the last 6 months and every visit requires a consultation first. Stop tapping the system. Providing health care to illegals is also driving the cost. They have t contributed a single cent into the system but when they walk in ER they get exact care we get that we’ve been paying for for years. 

An important driver of $$ costs in US is not illegals or even MDs padding bills...it's our society's basic inequality.

So for example people in poor rural and urban communities alike don't have access to a PCP, due to a lack of PCPs and how insurance pays them and serves the poor. So they go to a hospital, for example, for a flu or aching knees or a backache. The difference in price between a PA attending to a cold and someone stuffed up and feverish with a backache occupying a public emergency room is staggering.  Add to that the profit motives of drug companies and hospital chains. Then remember what YOU get charged for a procedure and what your insurance company negotiates that down to, and you've got some really wild distortions in pricing.  Top it off with the fact that the Affordable Care act basically transfers a part of the high costs associated with the above onto those--like individual families of people who work for themselves--who cannot negotiate for a volume deal. 

Another key aspect of the price of healthcare in the US is HOW we live.  If we put a health tax on Pepsico or McDonalds' or Anheuser Busch's profits we'd be recouping a bit of what it costs to care for the morbidly obese, the cardiac patients, and those suffering from diabetes. As it is, our health system subsidizes their poisoning of Americans. That's the opposite of smokers, whose high taxes pay for more than it costs to care for them (due to the comparative rapidity of death from smoking-induced disease). Have you ever thought of how much it costs just to lift in and out of bed or build a toilet and wheelchair to accommodate a 400lb, 5'5" patient with diarrhea? 

[JFC1]

22 minutes ago, Batsto said:

What’s the common denominator in your list? Lack of Diversity 

Decent diet and lack of serious economic disparities. Pretty simple.

Do you really think there's a lack of diversity in Norway, Netherlands, Germany, FRance, Canada, or Israel? It might surprise you, but just because every 'real' citizen is Jewish doesn't do away with diversity. Read a little about immigration to Israel and learn a bit. And last I checked the Netherlands was either majority non-European or Dutch descent, or tipping that way. Or take a look even at Japan, and its guest workers.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by JFC1

[JFC1]

1 hour ago, OldMenRule said:

Inferior healthcare. It's corrupt, over regulated, over burdened but far from inferior. People are dying in those modernized countries you so fondly speak of waiting for basic care so spare me with how bad healthcare is in the United States.

     

People are dying in the US waiting for healthcare too, buster

Healthcare in the US is great if you have the $$. It can be pretty amazingly shitty and delayed, and even non-existent, if you don't. Pretty simple, and patriotism or classism doesn't change that fact

[JFC1]

16 minutes ago, Batsto said:

What’s the common denominator in your list? Lack of Diversity 

You do know that Mexican immigrants to the US have a lower life expectancy than those who stayed home, right? 

[JFC1]

53 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

 

Before you give credit to health care look at the life style.   The us is far from inferior health care and some of those countries people are still dying regularly of basic needs and the  so look at all facts instead of a snap shot

Pretty much all, if not all, of the countries listed have better lifestyles (as in diet, exercise) and much less inequality than the US. You are incorrect to argue that "people are dying of basic needs." 

I'll bet you there are more hungry people far from an MD and without modern plumbing and a nearby supermarket in Appalachia than there are in all of New Zealand, and that's not simply a function of comparative size and population

[JFC1]

2 hours ago, vdep217 said:

And there is no better.  It was better being a free market where competition kept prices competitive.   Now with mandates etc they can charge what they want n doctors know that.  Get stitches use insurance 2 grand pay out of pocket 6 or 700

When I look at my bills is more like "Get stitches = $2G" and "discount to Insurance Provider, amt paid is $350"  It's ridiculous

[vdep217]

18 minutes ago, JFC1 said:

When I look at my bills is more like "Get stitches = $2G" and "discount to Insurance Provider, amt paid is $350"  It's ridiculous

I've paid cash for stitches because out of network either out of state or out of country literally cost ne 300 to 500