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New heavy arrow setup.


27 replies to this topic

#1 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:17 AM

First of all I haven't posted here in a while. Been super busy with my career. But all I can is I cant wait for the bow season to start. My bow right now is at the shop getting a new string on it.

I'm also trying a new Arrow setup. I'm shooting Deer crossing archery SD hunters. They are 11.6 grains per inch and I'm running a 120 grain stainless steel outsert and a 150 grain 2 blade VPA broadheads

Once I get my bow back from the shop I'm going to tune the arrows. I'm hoping this arrow will help if I god forbid hit a bone or a shoulder.

I don't have the official weight of the arrows yet. But they are going to be between 550 grains and 600 grains. And about 20% FOC

Anybody else shoot arrows this heavy? And what are your results?

Best of Luck this season!
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#2 Male OFFLINE   outdoorslife

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:32 AM

Nice setup Bowhunter. My arrows are not nearly as heavy but besides the obvious penetration gains that youll see, your bow should be much quieter. Thats the first thing I noticed when I went heavier.

 

Im only shooting 62lbs @28.5" draw. I didnt want to give up "too much" speed(not a speed freak here), so wanting to stay around 270fps I built a BE Rampage which is 8.2 gpi, 100 grain BH with 56 grain insert, 3 blazer vains @ roughly 6.5 grains per fletching and a 18.5 grain lighted nock. I think Im settled in around 420 grains and about 14% FOC. I noticed a huge improvement coming from about 380/390 grains in both penetration and less sound. Had I built an arrow with a heavy gpi to start and my setup, Id have little FOC so I wanted to stay around 8 gpi.

 

Good luck with your new setup this year, knock em down! 


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#3 Male OFFLINE   Gobblengrunt

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:37 AM

I use a similar weight setup (different arrow and broadhead) on my recurves. My bows will shoot between 165 and 175 fps (depending on bow) with my setups. I will blow through decent bone with a well designed single bevel broadhead. Abowyer broadhead being my favorite when it comes to serious bone crushing penetration. With your setup assuming it's well tuned and the broadhead is a single bevel, you will CRUSH a white tails bone and penetrate! Good luck
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#4 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:40 AM

That's a great setup too. I'm interested to see how much quieter my bow becomes.

. I thought about staying between 400-480 grains but I was extremely curious what a "heavy" setup will do. My bow is a Mathews Chill R that is advertised at 342 fps IBO. I'm a 27" draw length with a 72lbs pull. I'm extremely excited to see what this setup brings!

Once I get the numbers I will be sure to post them here.

#5 Male ONLINE   Lunatic

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:43 AM

First of all I haven't posted here in a while. Been super busy with my career. But all I can is I cant wait for the bow season to start. My bow right now is at the shop getting a new string on it.

I'm also trying a new Arrow setup. I'm shooting Deer crossing archery SD hunters. They are 11.6 grains per inch and I'm running a 120 grain stainless steel outsert and a 150 grain 2 blade VPA broadheads

Once I get my bow back from the shop I'm going to tune the arrows. I'm hoping this arrow will help if I god forbid hit a bone or a shoulder.

I don't have the official weight of the arrows yet. But they are going to be between 550 grains and 600 grains. And about 20% FOC

Anybody else shoot arrows this heavy? And what are your results?

Best of Luck this season!

 

 

I am not very technical guy when it comes to bow set up, I have someone else do it. However from the physics point of view you don't want to give up too much speed, hopefully any. Any change in  speed effects kinetic energy much faster than mass changes, so you may add mass but lose overall kinetic energy if you don't maintain the speed.  


Edited by Lunatic, 08/09/17 - 10:04 AM.

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#6 Male OFFLINE   JHbowhunter

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:47 AM

When I went from 360gr total weight to around 470, I found BH tuning to be much easier. I am shooting cabelas stalker extremes (Beman ICS) with VPA 125gr 3 blade. The shafts are 65/80, 9.3 gpi 340 spine. I cut them a few inches longer than my previous CE Maxima hunters in lighter spine/gpi, which were at 27".  This added weight and prevented spine from being "too stiff". I helical fletched them myself with 4" Arizona Plastifletch vanes, and these arrows shoot great and really penetrate. The extra 110 grains didn't seem to "drop" all that much faster out of my Matthews 65# z7. I am often interested in trying the VPA 150 and shorten the shaft another inch, but I have so many 125gr BH's I am set for life.  


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#7 Male OFFLINE   Gobblengrunt

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:51 AM

Bowhunter92, remember you are only hunting white tails. There bones are not that big and could easily be penetrated with the right setup. It has been well documented that the starting point for adequate "heavy" bone penetration starts with an arrow of 600 grains plus, a 3-1 single bevel broadhead (with correct blade angle), and FOC of 18% or more. Just keep in mind that the single bevel "L" holes will not put anymore blood on the ground than a well sharpened double bevel. Shot placement dictates blood trail. Penetration is paramount. These specialized setups hitting heavy shoulder bone or same can be the difference in a dead deer or an injured one.

#8 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:55 AM

My arrows according to a computer program, are a little bit on the weak side. If I cut off 2 inches they will be perfectly spined,. Which I am going to have done. That will lessen the weight by 23.2 grains. And I'm sure my FOC will increase.

I am more interested to see the momentum factor and the penetration as a result of having arrows with extremely high FOC and heavy mass.

I'm running 270 grains just in the outsert and the broadhead. I'm thinking since they will fly slower they should fly better with more consistency.

I've shot light arrows with mechanicals and have ripped through deer. But I am more concerned in having an arrow that will work when bone happens to get in the way and the shot is a little forward if that deer takes a bad step or my buck fever gets the best of me.

I think Amy arrow will work with a perfect shot. I want an arrow that will be as lethal as possible when it comes to possible shots on bone.

#9 Male OFFLINE   Gobblengrunt

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Posted 08/09/17 - 09:57 AM

When your tuning arrows with very heavy FOC arrows, the programs are commonly incorrect. Bare shaft tune and let YOUR setup tell you what it needs (it will never lie, lol!)
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#10 Male ONLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 08/09/17 - 10:07 AM

Once I get my bow back from the shop I'm going to tune the arrows. I'm hoping this arrow will help if I god forbid hit a bone or a shoulder.

 

 

All bets are off if you hit bone or shoulder.  Bows just don't have enough power to break bone consistently.  While you can calculate things like kinetic energy, momentum, and speed, the unknown variable in the equation is the deer.  You can calculate the estimated maximum force that the arrow will produce, but you'll never know how much force is required on the deer's bone to penetrate or shatter it.  Things like the angle, age of the deer, body size, etc. will influence the amount of force required to break the bone, and this varies from deer to deer.

 

As you know, shot placement is key.  But I would not rely on arrow force to penetrate or break bone because of the unknowns.

 

Best of luck with your setup!


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#11 Male OFFLINE   not on the rug

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Posted 08/09/17 - 10:29 AM

I'd love to go to a heavier set up, but I'm going to wait until a purchase another bow first. 

 

My current bow is shooting Beman Classic Hunters, 390g total weight.  100g heads.  I'm hitting 270 on the chrono.  60.5# draw weight and a 28" draw.  

 

I'd like to pick up a PSE Evolve 35 in a 70lb draw weight and move to a 125 or even 150g head and a 50g brass insert.  That Evolve puts out such amazing speeds for a 35" ata and will certainly move a heavier arrow downrange in a hurry.  Another 50-75g in total weight would be nice.   


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#12 Male OFFLINE   not on the rug

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Posted 08/09/17 - 10:31 AM

All bets are off if you hit bone or shoulder.  Bows just don't have enough power to break bone consistently.  While you can calculate things like kinetic energy, momentum, and speed, the unknown variable in the equation is the deer.  You can calculate the estimated maximum force that the arrow will produce, but you'll never know how much force is required on the deer's bone to penetrate or shatter it.  Things like the angle, age of the deer, body size, etc. will influence the amount of force required to break the bone, and this varies from deer to deer.

 

As you know, shot placement is key.  But I would not rely on arrow force to penetrate or break bone because of the unknowns.

 

Best of luck with your setup!

Well said.  The extra oomph can sometimes be the difference between recovery or watching a deer trot off with an arrow sticking out of it's shoulder.  No guarantees obviously...


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#13 Male OFFLINE   JHbowhunter

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Posted 08/09/17 - 10:52 AM

Nothing wrong with a heavier arrow for many reasons.  Although most tend to agree "Shot selection/placement" are paramount and #1 factor, many choose their setup based on some margin for error. Some prefer big expandables in case of gut hit, the theory being wider cut may kill the non-lung, non-heart, non-artery, non-liver hit faster and lend better chance to recovery.   

 

I prefer to aim in a little tighter to the crease and err on side of "bone".   This shot I never get tired of posting, because with my lighter arrows and dare a say an expandable like a rage, it's just not happening..

 

My 125gr VPA on the 470 total weight shaft severed the spinal chord, blew though all that bone, skewered the heart and was only stopped by ground.

 

 

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#14 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 10:59 AM

Jhbowhunter,

That's a good story. I have the VPA's in 150 grain. So pretty much my experiment is to see whether the heavy arrow is worthy of the speed loss. And to see if there is a happy medium. Those heavy arrows hit really hard and don't stop. And that's what I want.
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#15 Male ONLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 08/09/17 - 11:03 AM

Nothing wrong with a heavier arrow for many reasons.  Although most tend to agree "Shot selection/placement" are paramount and #1 factor, many choose their setup based on some margin for error. Some prefer big expandables in case of gut hit, the theory being wider cut may kill the non-lung, non-heart, non-artery, non-liver hit faster and lend better chance to recovery.   

 

I prefer to aim in a little tighter to the crease and err on side of "bone".   This shot I never get tired of posting, because with my lighter arrows and dare a say an expandable like a rage, it's just not happening..

 

My 125gr VPA on the 470 total weight shaft severed the spinal chord, blew though all that bone, skewered the heart and was only stopped by ground.

 

 

Interesting way to approach it.  I don't disagree at all.  I've just always had a different mindset when approaching bow hunting, and it comes directly from my experiences with archery.  Shot placement is everything.  Just another way of looking at it--neither right nor wrong.

 

I always have in my head, "If you can make it, take it."  Otherwise, I won't shoot.  Passed on a few deer because of it.

 

Again, not disagreeing with you, just sharing a different way of looking at it.


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#16 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 11:04 AM

All bets are off if you hit bone or shoulder.  Bows just don't have enough power to break bone consistently.  While you can calculate things like kinetic energy, momentum, and speed, the unknown variable in the equation is the deer.  You can calculate the estimated maximum force that the arrow will produce, but you'll never know how much force is required on the deer's bone to penetrate or shatter it.  Things like the angle, age of the deer, body size, etc. will influence the amount of force required to break the bone, and this varies from deer to deer.
 
As you know, shot placement is key.  But I would not rely on arrow force to penetrate or break bone because of the unknowns.
 
Best of luck with your setup!


Thanks for the input. I definitely agree. Best of luck this season. I'm going to let you guys know if I get a deer of the results. I'm really excited for the flight of the arrow with a broadhead and I'm excited to see how quiet my bow will be.
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#17 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 11:19 AM



This is what I am really trying to emulate.
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#18 Male OFFLINE   Gobblengrunt

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Posted 08/09/17 - 11:42 AM

All bets are off if you hit bone or shoulder.  Bows just don't have enough power to break bone consistently.  While you can calculate things like kinetic energy, momentum, and speed, the unknown variable in the equation is the deer.  You can calculate the estimated maximum force that the arrow will produce, but you'll never know how much force is required on the deer's bone to penetrate or shatter it.  Things like the angle, age of the deer, body size, etc. will influence the amount of force required to break the bone, and this varies from deer to deer.
 
As you know, shot placement is key.  But I would not rely on arrow force to penetrate or break bone because of the unknowns.
 
Best of luck with your setup!


Shot placement is key but consistent penetration through bone is attainable with any bow setup. Momentum is key, not kinetic energy. A well tuned 650 grain arrow (minimum) with a well designed sharp 3-1 ratio single bevel head traveling at over 180 fps will go through any whitetail bone consistently. It's not to say that you use this setup to aim or purposely go through bone, you are just setting up for the worse. There has been well documented tests showing the above is true. If we have a get shoot get together, I would gladly demonstrate with fresh cow shoulders. If I can set up a bow for buffalo, a whitetail is no challenge.
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#19 Male OFFLINE   Bowhunter92

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Posted 08/09/17 - 11:48 AM

Shot placement is key but consistent penetration through bone is attainable with any bow setup. Momentum is key, not kinetic energy. A well tuned 650 grain arrow (minimum) with a well designed sharp 3-1 ratio single bevel head traveling at over 180 fps will go through any whitetail bone consistently. It's not to say that you use this setup to aim or purposely go through bone, you are just setting up for the worse. There has been well documented tests showing the above is true. If we have a get shoot get together, I would gladly demonstrate with fresh cow shoulders. If I can set up a bow for buffalo, a whitetail is no challenge.


Yes what I'm going for his high momentum. If trad shooters shoot heavy arrows with high FOC why can't compound shooters? If anything there will be more of a benefit for compound shooters.
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#20 Male ONLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 08/09/17 - 11:49 AM

Shot placement is key but consistent penetration through bone is attainable with any bow setup. Momentum is key, not kinetic energy. A well tuned 650 grain arrow (minimum) with a well designed sharp 3-1 ratio single bevel head traveling at over 180 fps will go through any whitetail bone consistently. It's not to say that you use this setup to aim or purposely go through bone, you are just setting up for the worse. There has been well documented tests showing the above is true. If we have a get shoot get together, I would gladly demonstrate with fresh cow shoulders. If I can set up a bow for buffalo, a whitetail is no challenge.

 

I'd love to see that setup!  Always keen to learn something new.

 

However, I will disagree, but won't become argumentative, that there are too many variables with the shot placement and the deer to consistently break bone.  I will agree that you can probably get a high probability to break it, but not consistently.

 

But as I mentioned, I'm willing to take a look at the setup and learn something new in the process.


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The right to revolt has sources deep in our history.

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Ideas are indeed the most dangerous weapons in the world. Our ideas of freedom are the most powerful political weapons man has ever forged.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas





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