Coyote and fox season?

[vdep217]

After reading closely, this I agree with. You just have to read legalese and it makes sense

 

Here's what we know:

 

Bow-only season for yote-fox starts September 30. Bow+firearm for yote-fox continues through March 15. So hunting yote-fox with bow is legal from September 30 through March 15.

 

Forget the digest, the actual law (NJAC § 7:25-5.19 - see below) states incidental taking of fox-yote is only legal during turkey season and deer firearm seasons (this matches what the digest says). Note that it doesn't mention bow - this eliminates the early EAB season for incidental harvest of fox-yote.

 

Note that it isn't "incidental" if you shoot it after Sept 30 with a bow because they are IN SEASON at that point. Doesn't matter if you were sitting in your stand hoping for a deer - you can legally shoot with your bow any fox/yote after Sept 30 because they are in season no matter what.

 

Here's the NJ administrative code related to yote-fox hunting - note is says nothing about incidental taking of yote/fox with bow (just like the digest) which tells me legally it is not ok to take a yote-fox incidental during EAB:

 

 

 

So you ask - why don't they make the same statement about bow hunting? Why don't they say you can take a yote-fox incidental while bow hunting deer? Here's what I think. Because if you are hunting deer or fox/yote with bow, the season dates overlap and more importantly your weapon is the same - broadheads - and thus are legal for both. So you do not need an exception. BUT! If you are hunting deer with a muzzy or with slugs or buckshot, THOSE ARE NOT LEGAL for fox/yote. Thus, there has to be an exception in the law to make it legal for you to shoot a yote/fox with ammunition that is NOT legal if you were explicitly hunting fox/yote. Otherwise, there would be no incidental taking of yote-fox at all.

 

But because there is no exception saying "you can take fox/yote incidental to those legally bow hunting deer" that eliminates EAB season - you cannot take a yote-fox until September 30 with a bow.

 

Read the laws and see if you don't come to the same conclusion. If there IS an exception to taking yote-fox during EAB, I'd like to see it in writing, because so far, I haven't seen it.

says during any open deer season

[mazzgolf]

says during any open deer season

 

Where does it say that? Did you read the coyote-fox hunting law - NJAC § 7:25-5.19 - that was posted above? I don't read "any open deer season" in there. Quite the opposite - it specifically says, "Properly licensed persons hunting deer during the six-day firearm, muzzleloader rifle permit or shotgun permit deer seasons may kill fox or coyote"

 

Notice it is missing anything about bow seasons.

 

I think the division changed it - no incidental yote-fox during early EAB bow season. I bet they want to avoid people shooting people's pet dogs they let run around the WMAs while its still warm out and people let their dogs run around. Once October hits and the cold weather starts coming in, less chance of that. That is just my guess.

 

Here's the full section of that law - I see nothing that says you can take yote or fox "during any open deer season".

N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.19

NEW JERSEY ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

Copyright © 2017 by the New Jersey Office of Administrative Law

*** This file includes all Regulations adopted and published through the ***

*** New Jersey Register, Vol. 49, No. 18, September 18, 2017 ***

TITLE 7. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION 

CHAPTER 25. DIVISION OF FISH AND WILDLIFE RULES 

SUBCHAPTER 5. 2017-2018 GAME CODE

Go to the New Jersey Administrative Code Archive Directory

N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.19 (2017)

§ 7:25-5.19 Red fox (Vulpes vulpes), gray fox (Urocyon cinereoargenteus), and coyote (Canis latrans) hunting

   (a) The duration of the red fox, gray fox, and coyote hunting season is as follows:

1. Bow and Arrow Only: Begins concurrently with the white-tailed deer fall bow season, as specified in N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.25(a)1, and concludes the Friday following the first Monday in November, inclusive.

2. Firearm or Bow and Arrow: Beginning on the Saturday following the first Monday in November and concluding the following March 15, inclusive.

3. Notwithstanding (a)1 and 2 above, coyote may be taken by licensed turkey hunters when encountered incidental to hunting turkey in accordance with N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.7. Turkey hunters may not have coyote calls or coyote decoys in their possession or take any action intended to attract coyote for take.

( B ) The use of dogs shall not be allowed for fox and coyote hunting during the bow and arrow only, fox and coyote season listed in (a)1 above. The use of dogs for fox and coyote hunting is permitted during the regular firearm or bow and arrow season enumerated in (a)2 above, except dogs shall not be allowed for fox and coyote hunting during the six-day firearm deer season set forth in N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.27(a), or on the Wednesday of the shotgun permit deer season, immediately following the six-day firearm deer season and set forth in N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.29(d), or when persons are engaged in hunting coyote or fox under the special season provisions included in (h) and (i) below. Properly licensed persons may continue to hunt fox or coyote with dogs through the end of the regular fox and coyote season as set forth in (a)2 above pursuant to regular season regulations including the requirement to wear fluorescent hunter's orange. Properly licensed persons hunting deer during the six-day firearm, muzzleloader rifle permit or shotgun permit deer seasons may kill fox or coyote, if the fox or coyote is encountered before said person has taken the season bag limit of deer. However, after the person has taken a daily bag limit of deer he or she must cease hunting immediately.

( c ) The hours for hunting fox and coyote during the regular bow and arrow season included in (a)1 above and during the regular firearm or bow and arrow season included in (a)2 above are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset, except on the opening day of the regular small game season enumerated in N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.2(a) and 5.3(a) when hunting hours shall be 8:00 A.M. until 1/2 hour after sunset.

(d) There is no bag limit for fox.

(e) The duration of the special eastern coyote, red fox and gray fox hunting season is January 1 (except in years when January 1 is a Sunday in which case the season will begin January 2) through March 15, inclusive and it is open Statewide.

(f) The hours for the hunting of coyote, red fox, and gray fox during the special eastern coyote, red fox and gray fox hunting season listed in (e) above are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset. The hours for the hunting of coyote during the special coyote season as noted in (h) and (i) below which allows coyote hunting at night are 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise with 10 or 12 gauge shotguns only.

1. Apprentice licenses are not valid for the taking of coyote, red fox, and gray fox.

(g) There is no bag limit for coyote.

(h) While hunting under the special provisions of this subsection and (i) below during the special eastern coyote, red fox and gray fox hunting season listed in (e) above, exclusively, hunting methods shall be restricted to calling and stand hunting. No person shall stalk or attempt to approach a coyote, red fox or gray fox for the purpose of taking or attempting to take the animal. A predator calling device must be in possession while hunting. The use of dogs or bait is prohibited. Portable lights are permitted. Fluorescent hunter's orange is not required on outer clothing for fox and coyote hunting during the special fox and eastern coyote hunting season. A special eastern coyote, red fox and gray fox hunting season permit is required and must be in possession while hunting under the special provisions of this subsection and (i) below. Permits shall be applied for via the Division's ELS or; in the event of ELS operating difficulties, by providing the same information at ELS locations through such alternate system as may be designated by the Division. Persons purchasing a special season permit must have a valid hunting license.

(i) During the special eastern coyote, red fox, and gray fox hunting season listed in (e) above, exclusively, coyotes and foxes may be hunted with bow and arrow, shotgun, center-fire rifles, rim-fire rifles, and single barrel muzzleloader rifles between 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset. Compound bows must have a minimum peak weight of 35 pounds. All other bows must have a minimum draw pull weight of 35 pounds. Shotguns shall be no smaller than 20 gauge nor larger than 10 gauge. Coyote and fox hunters shall possess and use shotgun shells loaded with shot sizes no smaller than "BB" (.18 caliber) and no larger than #3 Buckshot (.25 caliber) for coyote and fox hunting with a shotgun. Pellets must be lead or tungsten-nickel-iron hybrid pellets. Muzzleloader rifles shall be no less than .44 caliber. Smoothbore muzzleloaders shall be single barreled. Center-fire rifles shall be a maximum of .25 caliber loaded with soft point or hollow point bullets with a maximum weight of 80 grains. Rim-fire rifles shall be a maximum of .22 caliber loaded with soft point or hollow point bullets with a maximum weight of 50 grains. Between 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise, only 10 or 12 gauge shotguns and fine shot no smaller than #4 (.13 inches in diameter) or larger than #T (.20 inches in diameter) may be used.

(j) Any coyote killed during regular or special hunting seasons shall be reported via the AHRS no later than 8:00 P.M. of the day of harvest. Should the hunter be unable to access the AHRS by the designated time, the hunter shall immediately report the harvested coyote by telephone to the nearest Division of Fish and Wildlife law enforcement regional office and register that harvest via the AHRS the next day.

(k) Authority: The authority for the adoption of the foregoing section is found in N.J.S.A. 23:4-42 and 23:4-58.1 and other applicable statutes.

 

UPDATE: Ah... I see where you are reading "any open deer season" (it is in the digest - notice those words are NOT in the law itself) - but you didn't finish the sentence when the digest ends the sentence with "with restrictions as specified under Small Game Hunting".  What are those restrictions? Turn to the  "Small Game Hunting" section, page 55 under the heading "Coyote and Fox, General and Special Permit Seasons" and you read pretty much word for word what the law NJAC 7.25-5.19 says:

Also, properly licensed persons hunting deer during the Six-day Firearm, Permit Muzzleloader or Permit Shotgun deer seasons may kill coyote or fox if the coyote or fox is encountered before the hunter has taken the season bag limit of deer. However, after the hunter has taken a daily bag limit of deer, they must cease hunting immediately. Incidental hunting of coyote or fox while deer hunting may resume the following day (provided the season remains open and the season bag limit of deer has not been reached.) Only applicable projectiles approved for deer hunting may be used to take coyote and fox incidental to deer hunting during the deer seasons described above.

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by mazzgolf

[NJSOG]

Any one have a stick ? I want to take a few swings at that dead horse.

 

 

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[Bucndoe]

Where does it say that? Did you read the coyote-fox hunting law - NJAC § 7:25-5.19 - that was posted above? I don't read "any open deer season" in there. Quite the opposite - it specifically says, "Properly licensed persons hunting deer during the six-day firearm, muzzleloader rifle permit or shotgun permit deer seasons may kill fox or coyote"

 

Notice it is missing anything about bow seasons.

 

I think the division changed it - no incidental yote-fox during early EAB bow season. I bet they want to avoid people shooting people's pet dogs they let run around the WMAs while its still warm out and people let their dogs run around. Once October hits and the cold weather starts coming in, less chance of that. That is just my guess.

 

Here's the full section of that law - I see nothing that says you can take yote or fox "during any open deer season".

 

 

UPDATE: Ah... I see where you are reading "any open deer season" (it is in the digest - notice those words are NOT in the law itself) - but you didn't finish the sentence when the digest ends the sentence with "with restrictions as specified under Small Game Hunting".  What are those restrictions? Turn to the  "Small Game Hunting" section, page 55 under the heading "Coyote and Fox, General and Special Permit Seasons" and you read pretty much word for word what the law NJAC 7.25-5.19 says:

 

You are trying to reinvent the wheel. The black and white answer is no as you posted. However, with the way it is listed in the Digest shows that the State's INTENT was to allow anyone LEGALLY deer hunting to be able to harvest a coyote/fox incidentally. Since the EAB zones are LEGALLY open and incidental harvest may occur, the ambiguity of the two would not result in a conviction by any hunter for this. The same ambiguity will also most likely prevent any CO from issuing a summons for this. Please move on

[JerseyJaysTaxidermy]

You are trying to reinvent the wheel. The black and white answer is no as you posted. However, with the way it is listed in the Digest shows that the State's INTENT was to allow anyone LEGALLY deer hunting to be able to harvest a coyote/fox incidentally. Since the EAB zones are LEGALLY open and incidental harvest may occur, the ambiguity of the two would not result in a conviction by any hunter for this. The same ambiguity will also most likely prevent any CO from issuing a summons for this. Please move on

And another argument is the digest says "all changes from last season are in red"

 

There is nothing red about the dates and last year it was clearly open in eab zones, so I imagine it's meant to be open...

 

 

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[BenedictGomez]

After reading closely, this I agree with. You just have to read legalese and it makes sense

 

I'm not a lawyer, and I dont play one on TV, but I have to read contracts nearly every day. The best advise I can give for that job is to temporarily remove all your common sense & read every word & sentence LITERALLY as stated, and with the understanding of a 5 year old.

 

You do that, and you minimize your chances of being bitten in the ass, but yeah, AS WRITTEN, take verbatim according to the 2017-2018 NJ F&G, shooting a coyote incidental to E.A.B. is illegal.   I doubt it actually is, but that's exactly what F&G has written.

 

 the way it is listed in the Digest shows that the State's INTENT was to allow anyone LEGALLY deer hunting to be able to harvest a coyote/fox incidentally.

 

Good luck with proving F&G's "intent" in a court of law, especially in New Jersey if the poop hits the fan!   Good luck getting them to admit that they were wrong and wrote it sloppy too.  Maybe you'll have success, but I wouldn't want my life depending on it.

[Mallard1100]

The simple fact that it states "any open deer season" is the big issue. The state simply screwed this up. It should not be up to us interpret. It should be plain and simple. Yet, the state has to have 3 different charts and multiple sections where this is all addressed. The coyote and fox r chart in itself is a clusterfu$$ to read.

[mazzgolf]

And another argument is the digest says "all changes from last season are in red"

 

There is nothing red about the dates and last year it was clearly open in eab zones, so I imagine it's meant to be open...

 

Well, all I am saying is - shoot a yote at your own risk this EAB season Because you'll be at the mercy of whether a CO wants to write you up or not and if you do get a ticket, you can't get around it because the law says you can't do it as far as I can see. If you ignore the digest and its missing red or its "all open deer seasons with restrictions" wording (the digest does say "This is not the full law. ... All persons are reminded that the statutes, code and regulations are the legal documents", p 26.) the code seems clear to me. I'll assume the digest people forgot to put those things in red. And I agree them saying "all open deer seasons with restrictions" is screwy. They should have just said "all open deer firearm seasons".

 

I'm surprised we are surprised that the digest is confusing.

[Lunatic]

Well, all I am saying is - shoot a yote at your own risk this EAB season Because you'll be at the mercy of whether a CO wants to write you up or not and if you do get a ticket, you can't get around it because the law says you can't do it as far as I can see. If you ignore the digest and its missing red or its "all open deer seasons with restrictions" wording (the digest does say "This is not the full law. ... All persons are reminded that the statutes, code and regulations are the legal documents", p 26.) the code seems clear to me. I'll assume the digest people forgot to put those things in red. And I agree them saying "all open deer seasons with restrictions" is screwy. They should have just said "all open deer firearm seasons".

 

I'm surprised we are surprised that the digest is confusing.

 

 

You are always at the mercy of CO but I believe you win this thing in court, with the digest in hand, regardless what they intended.

The digest states during all deer seasons with restrictions. But there are no restrictions other than the type of projectile you can use. Talking about another season is not a restriction. You need specific language where they direct you to find  restrictions changing the original statement which lets you take them during ALL Deer season.  

Edited September 23, 2017 by Lunatic

[mazzgolf]

I believe you win this thing in court, with the digest in hand, regardless what they intended.

 

Page 26 of the digest, "This is not the full law. ... All persons are reminded that the statutes, code and regulations are the legal documents"

 

IMO, the judge will ignore the digest because, as it itself states, it is not the legal documents that are to be consulted - he is going to look at what the actual law is to determine guilt or innocence.

[Lunatic]

Page 26 of the digest, "This is not the full law. ... All persons are reminded that the statutes, code and regulations are the legal documents"

 

IMO, the judge will ignore the digest because, as it itself states, it is not the legal documents that are to be consulted - he is going to look at what the actual law is to determine guilt or innocence.

 

I disagree, I think he will look at facts, the Digest is publish for a reason, not entrapment, and will let you go 

However; I am not shooting one until October, I don't need to deal with this mess just to take a fox:-)

Edited September 23, 2017 by Lunatic

[Bucndoe]

And another argument is the digest says "all changes from last season are in red"

There is nothing red about the dates and last year it was clearly open in eab zones, so I imagine it's meant to be open...

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My post, #19 was from the direct result of speaking to Fish and Game officials. Edited September 23, 2017 by Bucndoe

[Bucndoe]

Page 26 of the digest, "This is not the full law. ... All persons are reminded that the statutes, code and regulations are the legal documents"

 

IMO, the judge will ignore the digest because, as it itself states, it is not the legal documents that are to be consulted - he is going to look at what the actual law is to determine guilt or innocence.

Incorrect, again. You are entitled to your opinion but you opinion is creating undue confusion. Go sit in any general municipal Court and watch how the judge handles ambiguity in the law and REASONABLE DOUBT. All Fish and Game summonses are handled in Municipal Courts. As I said my post was a direct result of consulting Fish and Game. Edited September 23, 2017 by Bucndoe

[Droptine 26]

Besides the fact that it's not legal, why would you want to shoot a fox or coyote in September when the hide isn't prime?

[vdep217]

Besides the fact that it's not legal, why would you want to shoot a fox or coyote in September when the hide isn't prime?

I spoke with someone that works for the state it is during any open deer season