...and there you have it!

[hammer4reel]

4 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

Are these programs in NJ, excuse my ignorance but what public lands in NJ have these policies and what are they if you wish to elaborate. 

Most countys have park progrsms open to limited access hunting .

Natural lands trust is another big land owner .

There are also small tracts of WMA that dont get touched that are off the beaten path.

 

. 

[BHC]

I remember like 12 years ago or so back during the good ole days if NJH, the subject of killing to many deer will one day come back and bite us in the ass, I was told to STFU, you and others have no ide what you're talking about, etc. Well I ended it with one day I & others will say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" that day was here years ago, but it seems like more people are seeing the results of over killing more now then ever before, more so when the farmers and FARM BUREAU claims and cries that NJ has 140 deer per Square mile.....talk about bullshit claim 

Edited December 22, 2018 by BHC

[vdep217]

5 minutes ago, BHC said:

I remember like 12 years ago or so back during the good ole days if NJH, the subject of killing to many deer will one day come back and bite us in the ass, I was told to STFU, you and others have no ide what you're talking about, etc. Well I ended it with one day I & others will say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" that day was here years ago, but it seems like more people are seeing the results of over killing more now then ever before, more so when the farmers and FARM BUREAU claims and cries that NJ has 140 deer per Square mile.....talk about bullshit claim 

It really hasn't come back..  the numbers yes in 99 to 2005 were indeed on the higher side up to 70000.  Now we are in n the 50000 harvest range per year where it was before 99..  so guys got used to seeing that many deer and now they say the numbers are low..  well no they are back to where they were before the population spike and have been relatively constant...  I have given data to support what im saying where is the data to support claims of low numbers..  the data I show has 7 years of above average than back to where it was..  so until I have data to support low numbers not just I don't see what I did 15 to 20 years ago im sticking to my thoughts..  may not be seeing what u did in 2000 but you are seeing what u did I the early 90s according to harvest numbers 

[Lunatic]

1 hour ago, vdep217 said:

Not force them but if they want depradation permit there should be steps that need to first be followed..  allowing hunting should be one of them..  

In a treee now so I’m not getting deep into it but allowing people hunt would never accomplish what they want to do

[BHC]

Every year before seasons open in any state we read that the prior season was a banner year and upcoming season is looking as good,  it's a sales pitch....without physical check stations the data numbers can and are manipulated....best data are those in the field hunting

[Lunatic]

12 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

It really hasn't come back..  the numbers yes in 99 to 2005 were indeed on the higher side up to 70000.  Now we are in n the 50000 harvest range per year where it was before 99..  so guys got used to seeing that many deer and now they say the numbers are low..  well no they are back to where they were before the population spike and have been relatively constant...  I have given data to support what im saying where is the data to support claims of low numbers..  the data I show has 7 years of above average than back to where it was..  so until I have data to support low numbers not just I don't see what I did 15 to 20 years ago im sticking to my thoughts..  may not be seeing what u did in 2000 but you are seeing what u did I the early 90s according to harvest numbers 

Not seeing them does not mean they are not here. They move to more desirable areas and one needs to be willing the move as well. I go by the numbers and therefore I don’t see the population being low. Like you said, from where we were in the 80s  the numbers are up by 100% and appear to be steady now. 

[Lunatic]

4 minutes ago, BHC said:

Every year before seasons open in any state we read that the prior season was a banner year and upcoming season is looking as good,  it's a sales pitch....without physical check stations the data numbers can and are manipulated....best data are those in the field hunting

Best data is for sure in the woods but not in one person’s tiny world. Do I believe you don’t see deer on public land with tons of pressure?  Not only I do but I expect them to be low since deer have much more desirable places to live in now. Was it you in this thread who said we have now deer in Bergen and we never did before? That’s where your deer are IMO. 

[BHC]

I hunt private that borders public with zero pressure,  I saw one hunter all season, and that was on opening day of 6 day.....yes deer are finding places like crowded Bergen County to be perfect......

[vdep217]

37 minutes ago, BHC said:

Every year before seasons open in any state we read that the prior season was a banner year and upcoming season is looking as good,  it's a sales pitch....without physical check stations the data numbers can and are manipulated....best data are those in the field hunting

Again not fact..  I have posted the chart and it's as close to fact as we have..  you are using some of the same lines the antis use to stop the bear hunt.. if we don't believe the numbers for deer bow can we tell the antis the bear hunt us needed based on numbers and science..   and in nj by published numbers the past 14 years have been relative in harvest numbers...

Edited December 22, 2018 by vdep217

[BHC]

Bears dont even come close to crop damage as deer, can't compare the bear population to the deer population on a state level, bears are mainly concentrated in the northwestern nj, and their home range is much greater then a deer's home range....so in that area of bears yes indeed it's a over population,  and deer are in fact over populated in selected places in NJ....not over populated in traditional deer areas unless a selected property has little to no hunting allowed.  

[vdep217]

Yes bear are over populated and so were deer at once time.  The goal of hunting is to create and hold  sustainable population which the harvest numbers prove has been met..  yes there are areas that can't be hunted and controlled.   But reported harvests remain constant meaning where they can be hunted has a steady population.  So by using these numbers as data to the antis and murphey we can prove that hunting works...  so for some to say the numbers are skewed for profit with deer but accurate for bear is working against us in the bear fight...

  Posted numbers show the state knows what they are doing in areas they can control with numbers.. now some want trophy deer but that is not the true goal of game management...  game management is controlling s sustainable resource..

Edited December 22, 2018 by vdep217

[vdep217]

17 minutes ago, BHC said:

Bears dont even come close to crop damage as deer, can't compare the bear population to the deer population on a state level, bears are mainly concentrated in the northwestern nj, and their home range is much greater then a deer's home range....so in that area of bears yes indeed it's a over population,  and deer are in fact over populated in selected places in NJ....not over populated in traditional deer areas unless a selected property has little to no hunting allowed.  

 

[BHC]

When on opening day of gun season hunters are hunting traditional deer country and you don't hear a shot or hear very little that alone tells me that the data you claim to be facts is false and manipulated to be a sales pitch, to sell more tags and licenses 

[BHC]

Without physical check stations the harvest numbers are manipulated by hunters.....I believe the bear numbers cause I know what I see and what my camera sees, what is reported by the hunters at a physical check station, where the state can and does get true data from the physical animal....the state relies on the hunter to be honest and we know there is a small percentage that will NOT report their kill, they will butcher the deer themselves and continue to hunt , or kill a deer in one zone and claim to have killed it in another zone....dumb move to get rid of check stations,  but it boiled down to the mighty $$$$$$

Edited December 22, 2018 by BHC

[vdep217]

15 minutes ago, BHC said:

When on opening day of gun season hunters are hunting traditional deer country and you don't hear a shot or hear very little that alone tells me that the data you claim to be facts is false and manipulated to be a sales pitch, to sell more tags and licenses 

Give me data to prove your point.  Some guys not seeing deer is not factual accurate data as that as well has its endevors.. the harvest numbers are what we have and are reported harvests from huntable areas...  Its the same with fishing..  guys fish the same spots they have for years that have been productive but when they are not they claim no fish..  deer as well as fish move due to a number of factors..  find them and you will be successful...