New heavy arrow setup.

[Bowhunter92]

All bets are off if you hit bone or shoulder.  Bows just don't have enough power to break bone consistently.  While you can calculate things like kinetic energy, momentum, and speed, the unknown variable in the equation is the deer.  You can calculate the estimated maximum force that the arrow will produce, but you'll never know how much force is required on the deer's bone to penetrate or shatter it.  Things like the angle, age of the deer, body size, etc. will influence the amount of force required to break the bone, and this varies from deer to deer.

 

As you know, shot placement is key.  But I would not rely on arrow force to penetrate or break bone because of the unknowns.

 

Best of luck with your setup!

Thanks for the input. I definitely agree. Best of luck this season. I'm going to let you guys know if I get a deer of the results. I'm really excited for the flight of the arrow with a broadhead and I'm excited to see how quiet my bow will be.

[Bowhunter92]

 

This is what I am really trying to emulate.

[Gobblengrunt]

All bets are off if you hit bone or shoulder.  Bows just don't have enough power to break bone consistently.  While you can calculate things like kinetic energy, momentum, and speed, the unknown variable in the equation is the deer.  You can calculate the estimated maximum force that the arrow will produce, but you'll never know how much force is required on the deer's bone to penetrate or shatter it.  Things like the angle, age of the deer, body size, etc. will influence the amount of force required to break the bone, and this varies from deer to deer.

 

As you know, shot placement is key.  But I would not rely on arrow force to penetrate or break bone because of the unknowns.

 

Best of luck with your setup!

Shot placement is key but consistent penetration through bone is attainable with any bow setup. Momentum is key, not kinetic energy. A well tuned 650 grain arrow (minimum) with a well designed sharp 3-1 ratio single bevel head traveling at over 180 fps will go through any whitetail bone consistently. It's not to say that you use this setup to aim or purposely go through bone, you are just setting up for the worse. There has been well documented tests showing the above is true. If we have a get shoot get together, I would gladly demonstrate with fresh cow shoulders. If I can set up a bow for buffalo, a whitetail is no challenge.

[Bowhunter92]

Shot placement is key but consistent penetration through bone is attainable with any bow setup. Momentum is key, not kinetic energy. A well tuned 650 grain arrow (minimum) with a well designed sharp 3-1 ratio single bevel head traveling at over 180 fps will go through any whitetail bone consistently. It's not to say that you use this setup to aim or purposely go through bone, you are just setting up for the worse. There has been well documented tests showing the above is true. If we have a get shoot get together, I would gladly demonstrate with fresh cow shoulders. If I can set up a bow for buffalo, a whitetail is no challenge.

Yes what I'm going for his high momentum. If trad shooters shoot heavy arrows with high FOC why can't compound shooters? If anything there will be more of a benefit for compound shooters.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Shot placement is key but consistent penetration through bone is attainable with any bow setup. Momentum is key, not kinetic energy. A well tuned 650 grain arrow (minimum) with a well designed sharp 3-1 ratio single bevel head traveling at over 180 fps will go through any whitetail bone consistently. It's not to say that you use this setup to aim or purposely go through bone, you are just setting up for the worse. There has been well documented tests showing the above is true. If we have a get shoot get together, I would gladly demonstrate with fresh cow shoulders. If I can set up a bow for buffalo, a whitetail is no challenge.

 

I'd love to see that setup!  Always keen to learn something new.

 

However, I will disagree, but won't become argumentative, that there are too many variables with the shot placement and the deer to consistently break bone.  I will agree that you can probably get a high probability to break it, but not consistently.

 

But as I mentioned, I'm willing to take a look at the setup and learn something new in the process.

[Bowhunter92]

I'd love to see that setup!  Always keen to learn something new.

 

However, I will disagree, but won't become argumentative, that there are too many variables with the shot placement and the deer to consistently break bone.  I will agree that you can probably get a high probability to break it, but not consistently.

 

But as I mentioned, I'm willing to take a look at the setup and learn something new in the process.

Exactly. Shot placement is everything. I'm just look for any and every advantage I can get

[JHbowhunter]

Interesting way to approach it.  I don't disagree at all.  I've just always had a different mindset when approaching bow hunting, and it comes directly from my experiences with archery.  Shot placement is everything.  Just another way of looking at it--neither right nor wrong.

 

I always have in my head, "If you can make it, take it."  Otherwise, I won't shoot.  Passed on a few deer because of it.

 

Again, not disagreeing with you, just sharing a different way of looking at it.

I will always put shot selection first - just saying I prefer to be in tighter to the crease whereas some still aim for vitals a bit closer to gut..

 

Green dot and watch them drop!

Edited August 9, 2017 by JHbowhunter

[not on the rug]

I typically aim just to the left edge of that dot on a broadside shot.  basically even with the back of the front leg, and 1/3 of the way up the body.  seems to do the trick and drop them within 40 -50 yards.  I have to say though, I've only had a handful of broadside shots over the years, and only a couple of those were from a ground blind.  Most of mine are quartering away and from an elevated position (tree stand) which changes things a bit...

[outdoorslife]

Nothing wrong with a heavier arrow for many reasons.  Although most tend to agree "Shot selection/placement" are paramount and #1 factor, many choose their setup based on some margin for error. Some prefer big expandables in case of gut hit, the theory being wider cut may kill the non-lung, non-heart, non-artery, non-liver hit faster and lend better chance to recovery.   

 

I prefer to aim in a little tighter to the crease and err on side of "bone".   This shot I never get tired of posting, because with my lighter arrows and dare a say an expandable like a rage, it's just not happening..

 

My 125gr VPA on the 470 total weight shaft severed the spinal chord, blew though all that bone, skewered the heart and was only stopped by ground.

I had something similar happen last year on a big doe early in the season. Shot placement was NOT "on" as things changed quick and at the last split second....

 

My wasp drone tipped black eagle rampage blew completely through the spine. At first while walking up, I thought it was just lodged inside. Well it wasnt. I found the front half of the arrow in the ground after the green started dying off about a month later. I was very impressed to say the least! Thats only 420 grains going about 270fps. Im not betting on that happening again by any means but confidence in my new setup was improved tenfold immediately.

 

 

 

 

Ive learned to believe that accuracy along with momentum are key in sending an arrow down range at a live target. I dont care much about the energy the arrow will have at impact. Because sometimes going lighter can increase KE but you will lose momentum. I want to know if I have enough momentum to blast through the tissue, bone or whatever upon impact of my target. Momentum imo is a bigger factor in penetration. 

[Livesintrees]

Heavy arrows are the way to go. Just know your distances.

[Rusty]

I've always preferred a heavy arrow with a heavy head and a good FOC.  I don't care about speed.  

[Rusty]

 Shot placement is everything.  

 

As many have said, this is 100% correct.  I will only shoot at a deer that is broadside to quartering away.  I don't want any chance of catching shoulder.

 

And I agree with Jack's shot placement, green dot all the way.  

[Rusty]

 

This is what I am really trying to emulate.

 

That's a great video Bowhunter.  I didn't realize FOC affected penetration that significantly.