Anyone try Duration permethrin???

[mazzgolf]

2 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

$42 for 8oz, or $24 for 32oz.  Let me think a moment, done.

I treated pants in the fall that I didn't wear until spring for a 3 mile hike and didn't have a tick on me.  First tried going out on the same hike in untreated pants and had a half dozen ticks on my pants before going 100ft.  Gordens 10% permethrin at TSC can make the same 6 month claim.  Depends how much you wash and wear them.  It's been tested extensively by the military to be safe.  We have a natural immunity to it.  Permethrin is permethrin no matter what name it goes by or what words they add before it or after it. 

1oz to 19oz water is the strongest mix that comes in sawyers(.5%).  I mix it weaker, 24oz or 260z water.  Less smell. It even works at 28-30oz water.  I dampen my clothes with the weaker mix while drying on the line to top off the strength after a couple washes.  A mix of .32% to .35% is what is in dog sprays.

Yeah, I agree. The only reason I might consider Duration 10% is it is specifically formulated / approved for use on clothing, unlike the other stuff like Martins.

(But honestly, I haven't had any issues with the Martins stuff, and like you said, it just works.)

[mazzgolf]

5 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

Permethrin is permethrin no matter what name it goes by or what words they add before it or after it. 

But remember, it's not the permethrin that's the question - it's the other 90% ingredients to worry about. That's where the differences are between all of these different formulations like Sawyers, Duration, Martins, 10%, 13.3%, 36.8%... only Sawyers and Duration are specifically labeled/approved for human clothing... so you have to wonder.. "what's the difference?"

[Greybeard]

5 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

Here's the Duration 10% concentrate label from 2012 as approved by the EPA (I got the Duration EPA registration number from a picture of the bottle -81402-2).

(here's the 2007 label from the same EPA website to compare - but it's basically the same)

(here's the 2021 label for their 0.5% concentrate)

I don't see anything in these labels about different mixing instructions to get longer than 6 weeks. The label just says retreat after 6-weeks. So if people are mixing them to last longer, they are doing so off-label. I suspect people who are saying they get longer lasting protection are just guessing and are doubling the ratio or something, thinking that "if I double the concentration from 0.5 to 1%, I'll get double the time! Winning!" But I don't think they actually know, and I doubt it works that way (and if they are increasing the concentrate, then they really are going off-label -- everything I've read shows that 0.5% is what you want and has been tested for human clothing). You can probably get the same results (good or bad) doing the same with the Martins stuff.

It is explicitly labeled for clothing though, so that's saying something. I've been looking for something that is cheaper than Sawyers that is explicitly for clothing.

They aren't mixing it stronger than .5%.  I screwed up the first time using it and made it 3x stronger.  It stunk really bad and the outer skin cells on my arms died and turned white even though the clothes were thoroughly dried before wearing. Had a t-shirt on so only the skin on my arms came in contact with the treated shirt. That was a long time ago. New cells were back the next day and I'm still alive.

[mazzgolf]

2 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

They aren't mixing it stronger than .5%.  I screwed up the first time using it and made it 3x stronger.  It stunk really bad and the outer skin cells on my arms died and turned white even though the clothes were thoroughly dried before wearing. Had a t-shirt on so only the skin on my arms came in contact with the treated shirt. That was a long time ago. New cells were back the next day and I'm still alive.

I LOL'ed...

Is that wrong?  

[Greybeard]

3 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

But remember, it's not the permethrin that's the question - it's the other 90% ingredients to worry about. That's where the differences are between all of these different formulations like Sawyers, Duration, Martins, 10%, 13.3%, 36.8%... only Sawyers and Duration are specifically labeled/approved for human clothing... so you have to wonder.. "what's the difference?"

Only water is in a diy mix.  They just add different inert ingredients to make it their own brand.  Could be water and lotions, oils,scents that do nothing but cut the permethrin.

[Bucndoe]

I wouldn’t trust anything to last that long. Trying to do that is like playing with fire and is just plain lazy. I spray my clothes every couple of weeks regardless of if they need it or not. It’s a part of the overall preparation to be in the woods without worry.

I mix my own and have plenty. I will never buy the finished spray again.

 

[hammer4reel]

3 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

But remember, it's not the permethrin that's the question - it's the other 90% ingredients to worry about. That's where the differences are between all of these different formulations like Sawyers, Duration, Martins, 10%, 13.3%, 36.8%... only Sawyers and Duration are specifically labeled/approved for human clothing... so you have to wonder.. "what's the difference?"

That’s what their claims origionally were . Sure the permethrin part is the same . The rest of the additives is the questionable part .

remember round up was safe until it wasn’t . 

[hammer4reel]

8 hours ago, Bucndoe said:

I wouldn’t trust anything to last that long. Trying to do that is like playing with fire and is just plain lazy. I spray my clothes every couple of weeks regardless of if they need it or not. It’s a part of the overall preparation to be in the woods without worry.

I mix my own and have plenty. I will never buy the finished spray again.

 

Special clothing made with permethrin is shown to last a long time .

So other types of tick protection def outlasts the older methods .

wondering if that’s the same mix duration also uses , as numbers seem the same .

Duration is actually approved for clothing at a rate of 2.5 percent and used as a soak .

where other mixes are done at .5% 

6 washes vs 70. 

 

https://parasitesandvectors.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13071-019-3314-1#:~:text=Factory-based%2C long-lasting,exposure to ticks and mosquitoes.

 

 

Edited April 17 by hammer4reel

[Bucndoe]

6 hours ago, hammer4reel said:

Special clothing made with permethrin is shown to last a long time .

So other types of tick protection def outlasts the older methods .

wondering if that’s the same mix duration also uses , as numbers seem the same .

Duration is actually approved for clothing at a rate of 2.5 percent and used as a soak .

where other mixes are done at .5% 

6 washes vs 70. 

 

https://parasitesandvectors.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13071-019-3314-1#:~:text=Factory-based%2C long-lasting,exposure to ticks and mosquitoes.

 

 

Still not a factor for me, I rarely wash my hunting clothes anyway. I have dug enough ticks out my skin to bother risking that anymore. How anything can last through any washes makes no sense to me either, but I'm a redneck simpleton. I have had no issues since I have started to use my own mix and see no reason change, but that's just me.

Edited April 17 by Bucndoe

[Russ 11]

I just ordered a 2 pack of sawyers 24 ounce spray bottles from Amazon for $ 24 . I didn’t think it was high priced . 

[BHC]

$10.00, bottle will last you for sometime 

 

Say goodbye to pests with this handy insect control. Martin's Control Solutions Permethrin Insect Control is for use inside and outside. Controlling pests for up to 4 weeks, Martin's insect control is simple to use. One quart of this insect control product makes up to 48 gallons for contact and residual sprays, and up to 266 gallons for large animal sprays. Add this reliable insect control to your supplies today!

• Home uses for insect control include: pantries, bedding, kitchens, buildings, carpets and clothing
• Insect control can be used in handheld foggers or automatic misting systems
• Targets flies, face flies, horn flies, stabInsect control is simple to usele flies, houseflies, lice, fleas, ticks, mites, ants, mosquitoes
•  
• 8 oz. container of insect control

 

[Northcountryman]

I worry about the long term effects; whos to say that you dont develop pancreatic cancer or something in 20 years from use?

[BHC]

3 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I worry about the long term effects; whos to say that you dont develop pancreatic cancer or something in 20 years from use?

valid point

[hammer4reel]

1 hour ago, BHC said:

$10.00, bottle will last you for sometime 

 

Say goodbye to pests with this handy insect control. Martin's Control Solutions Permethrin Insect Control is for use inside and outside. Controlling pests for up to 4 weeks, Martin's insect control is simple to use. One quart of this insect control product makes up to 48 gallons for contact and residual sprays, and up to 266 gallons for large animal sprays. Add this reliable insect control to your supplies today!

• Home uses for insect control include: pantries, bedding, kitchens, buildings, carpets and clothing
• Insect control can be used in handheld foggers or automatic misting systems
• Targets flies, face flies, horn flies, stabInsect control is simple to usele flies, houseflies, lice, fleas, ticks, mites, ants, mosquitoes
•  
• 8 oz. container of insect control

 

I have been using the same stuff .

but what is the other 87% used as the carrier and other additives.

is it those extra additives that stop them from getting approval for human use 

[BHC]

no matter the brand, no matter what the label says or what the FDA says it's all chemicals that are harmful to us ....when spraying my camo I wear latex gloves, and I never spray the clothing I wear under my camo, that clothing is a barrier so to speak