Expandables for crossbows?

[Lunatic]

There's no problem with his logic.   There's a problem with your logic; namely that it defies the laws of physics. 

 

Given an object of constant mass like the broadhead in question, the increased acceleration will lead to greater force.   The result is increased, not decreased, accuracy.

 

BS to your low of physics. If what you stated had anything to do with accuracy than all broadheads, in fact all objects would fly the same. It is the shape of the object dictating for the most part the accuracy and there is a reason why even crossbow manufacturers suggest mechanicals.

Since when any law of physics suggest greater force = better accuracy. Where the hell did you come with this one from? If you have something on the object creating a drag then more speed you introduce the more drag and change in course is introduced. This is the entire problem with fixed blades, and why they can only be little more than an inch wide and you are telling me this is against laws of physics:-).

Edited June 26, 2017 by Lunatic

[Lunatic]

Yes, I do; very anal, I know.

 

But that's not what I meant, I meant the weight of the full rig (broadhead or mechanical, arrow, nock, etc...).

 

Well if you just changed the head all else stays the same, no?

[BenedictGomez]

BS to your low of physics. If what you stated had anything to do with accuracy than all broadheads, in fact all objects would fly the same. It is the shape of the object dictating for the most part the accuracy and there is a reason why even crossbow manufacturers suggest mechanicals.

Since when any law of physics suggest greater force = better accuracy. Where the hell did you come with this one from? If you have something on the object creating a drag then more speed you introduce the more drag and change in course is introduced. This the entire problem with fixed blades, and why they can only be little more than an inch wide and you are telling me this is against laws of physics:-).

 

It's not BS.  Generally speaking, increased force over the same massed object will lead to increased accuracy over distances if you plotted it on a curve.  Obviously  yes, drag and shape profile WILL be an issue eventually if we get ridiculous (or stupid) with the shape profiles, but that's not realistically even a concern here.  For instance, in dlist777's example, he says 1 5/8", which is entirely believable IMO as it seems unnecessarily large for a broadhead diameter.   And as I said earlier, QUALITY is a huge issue here.  You take a good quality & accurate crossbow firing 350fps and it's not going to make a  bit of difference whether the end-user is using a broadhead or a mechanical in terms of accuracy.  As long as the person has tested his rig, they'll both be spot-on accurate.  If not, you're doing something wrong.

[Lunatic]

OK, so you disagree with Gomez?  Your view is mechanicals are always better in a crossbow as compared to fixed?  

 

 

I do 100%. Not only they fly better but crossbow has enough energy to really inflict some serious damage with a very wide cut. I killed close to 50 deer with my crossbow + 2.5" rage and never had one single problem with results like this, they can hardly make it 20 yards after a hit like this:

 

 

 

 

 

[dlist777]

What make/brand.   Is it a lower speed model?

 

Seems really odd they would broadly say "crossbow rated mechanicals" rather than give you some suggestions for specific brand/make and grains that they've tested in-house.

Ravin R9 and R15.  390 FPS and 425 FPS.  They did offer specific recommendations when I emailed them.  But not in the instructions.  I think crossbow rated just means they are tested to not prematurely open at high speeds.  You can see the instructions for yourself just google it.  

[Lunatic]

It's not BS.  Generally speaking, increased force over the same massed object will lead to increased accuracy over distances if you plotted it on a curve.  Obviously  yes, drag and shape profile WILL be an issue eventually if we get ridiculous (or stupid) with the shape profiles, but that's not realistically even a concern here.  For instance, in dlist777's example, he says 1 5/8", which is entirely believable IMO as it seems unnecessarily large for a broadhead diameter.   And as I said earlier, QUALITY is a huge issue here.  You take a good quality & accurate crossbow firing 350fps and it's not going to make a  bit of difference whether the end-user is using a broadhead or a mechanical in terms of accuracy.  As long as the person has tested his rig, they'll both be spot-on accurate.  If not, you're doing something wrong.

 

I again disagree. The shape of the object is a key and if the object has a problematic shape, the speed makes it worse so you law of physics does not exist. In fact fixed broadheads in tests always did much better with lower speeds and showed problems at higher speeds.

 

There is tons of this info on internet but here is just one completely defeating your "law of physics"

 

Fixed-Blade Cons

The biggest knock against fixed-blade heads has always been they are more apt to veer off course shot from the fastest bows. This explains why as compound bows have become faster fixed-blade broadheads have grown smaller. Lay a standard New Archery Products’ Thunderhead a decade old beside a Thunderhead Edge made yesterday and you’ll see my point, the former 2 inches long and 1-3/16-inch wide, compared to 1 by 1-1/8 inches. Many argue a 1-1/8-inch cut isn’t enough to cut an animal sufficiently (more later).

 

https://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2014/07/05/fixed-blade-vs-mechanicalblade-broadheads/

Edited June 26, 2017 by Lunatic

[BenedictGomez]

 they fly better

 

 

Where on earth do you get this from?

 

   You can have two people side-by-side, one shooting a broadhead and one shooting a mechanical, and as long as they've both tested the rig (head, arrow, nock) properly and know their equipment, they should both repeatedly be able to hit a softball-sized target assuming they have a decent crossbow (that's an x-factor, because many people own cheap crap).  Your belief that mechanicals are accurate and broadheads are inaccurate is nonsense.

[Lunatic]

Where on earth do you get this from?

 

   You can have two people side-by-side, one shooting a broadhead and one shooting a mechanical, and as long as they've both tested the rig (head, arrow, nock) properly and know their equipment, they should both repeatedly be able to hit a softball-sized target assuming they have a decent crossbow (that's an x-factor, because many people own cheap crap).  Your belief that mechanicals are accurate and broadheads are inaccurate is nonsense.

 

 

It is science/physics:-). Why do you think rockets have no wings? Because at higher speed objects become unstable, not more stable as you claimed in your original post, and more crap you have protruding from them more unstable they get. If you don't know  the  fixed blades are less stable at higher speed,( well proven fact), then we don't need to talk anymore because you are being dishonest, well maybe just lacking in knowledge or misinformed.  Its a fact !

[Lunatic]

It is science/physics:-). Why do you think rockets have no wings? Because at higher speed objects become unstable, not more stable as you claimed in your original post, and more crap you have protruding from them more unstable they get. If you don't know  the  fixed blades are less stable at higher speed,( well proven fact), then we don't need to talk anymore because you are being dishonest, well maybe just lacking in knowledge or misinformed.  Its a fact !

 

 

 

Where on earth do you get this from?

 

   You can have two people side-by-side, one shooting a broadhead and one shooting a mechanical, and as long as they've both tested the rig (head, arrow, nock) properly and know their equipment, they should both repeatedly be able to hit a softball-sized target assuming they have a decent crossbow (that's an x-factor, because many people own cheap crap).  Your belief that mechanicals are accurate and broadheads are inaccurate is nonsense.

 

 The biggest reason mechanicals became popular was because fixed blades were not very good at higher speed, so yes I believe science tells us mechanical blades fly better.

Some say they don't open but that's another story I am willing to argue

[Rusty]

 The biggest reason mechanicals became popular was because fixed blades were not very good at higher speed.  

 

That's why I shoot big fat heavy arrows with heavy heads.  They can keep their speed, give me stable flight that packs a wallop when it hits.       

[Lunatic]

That's why I shoot big fat heavy arrows with heavy heads.  They can keep their speed, give me stable flight that packs a wallop when it hits.       

 

 

And I am sure you have many deer under your belt to prove it.

 

At least you are not one of the guys using something else than Rage, trying to convince guys who love them not to use them  ,. Its a weird phenomenon

[Rusty]

And I am sure you have many deer under your belt to prove it.

 

Is that a polite way of calling me old?  

[Lunatic]

Is that a polite way of calling me old?  

 

 

No, I maybe older than you are but you behave to mature to be a kid:-)  

[BenedictGomez]

 The biggest reason mechanicals became popular was because fixed blades were not very good at higher speed, so yes I believe science tells us mechanical blades fly better.

Some say they don't open but that's another story I am willing to argue

 

You dont have an argument.  You have a false statement.

 

Some of the fastest crossbows in the world shoot over 400fps, WITH fixed blades, and can accurately take out 50 cent pieces from a bench rest.  

 

In other words, your epiphanic belief that fixed blades are inaccurate is complete BS.  In fact, this is so obvious to most posters here that I truly doubt you even have much experience shooting fixed blades from a crossbow.   In fact, in a prior thread I believe you admitted as such that you only used fixed blades for a spell before switching to mechanicals.     

[BenedictGomez]

That's why I shoot big fat heavy arrows with heavy heads.  They can keep their speed, give me stable flight that packs a wallop when it hits.       

 

Which is also a scientifically accurate statement for the same reason, assuming you have enough force.   F=MA.  Regardless of some people's "opinions", you cant screw with Newton's second law of motion.    Speed is a good thing if  you're looking for increased accuracy.