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[hunterbob1]

55 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

 

Meanwhile, I just had a hunt ruined 30 minutes ago when 2 coyotes just cruised by. That's 2 days in a row I witnessed predators hunting down turkeys. So the turkey problem isn't hunters killing Toms in the spring. And i really need to start trapping 

Heard that before 

IIRC, this is a two day class by your Port Republic place right?
 

    I Google'd, can't find any details on this.
 

    Can you provide a link to a webpage somewhere or provide details (dates, times, price, etc)?
 
 https://www.njwoodsandwater.com/forums/topic/26161-south-jersey-trapping-and-snaring-school/?do=findComment&comment=337273

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/education/trapper-education/

[mazzgolf]

I actually already have my trapping education certificate... took that 2-day class a few years ago. I even have a bunch of equipment already (snares, etc.). I just need to find the time to actually do it. So much to do, so little time to do it.

[chenrossi]

5 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

From a conservation viewpoint, What does it matter if one hunter kills 100 or 100 hunters kill 1 each? Harvest is the same. NJ has a different system than other states, no? We have a quota of permits, and you can only kill 1 turkey per permit. That's different from, say, NY State where everyone can buy a turkey permit and hunt state wide. The only way to limit the harvest in that system is to have a bag limit per hunter. In NJ the permit quota system is the limit.

Meanwhile, I just had a hunt ruined 30 minutes ago when 2 coyotes just cruised by. That's 2 days in a row I witnessed predators hunting down turkeys. So the turkey problem isn't hunters killing Toms in the spring. And i really need to start trapping 

It doesn't despite many still walking into a wall convinced it somehow does matter (looks something like this) .... Example, I've taken several people who have harvested birds I would have otherwise personally chased myself if I didn't have them along. I've been finding some new tag soup recipes in between taking people. So what's the only difference? Who shot the bird and got to put their tag on it, that's it. Rocket science!!!! Instead of me shooting 8 myself with the tags I have, 8 different people did on their 1 tag. Harvest is still the exact same. Math is hard for some to grasp I guess.  

[vdep217]

6 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

From a conservation viewpoint, What does it matter if one hunter kills 100 or 100 hunters kill 1 each? Harvest is the same. NJ has a different system than other states, no? We have a quota of permits, and you can only kill 1 turkey per permit. That's different from, say, NY State where everyone can buy a turkey permit and hunt state wide. The only way to limit the harvest in that system is to have a bag limit per hunter. In NJ the permit quota system is the limit.

Meanwhile, I just had a hunt ruined 30 minutes ago when 2 coyotes just cruised by. That's 2 days in a row I witnessed predators hunting down turkeys. So the turkey problem isn't hunters killing Toms in the spring. And i really need to start trapping 

Because it is not fair according to some.  I did not take a bird this year.  Still might during d but I let a few Jake's go and was close a few times on long beards.  Spring harvests have very little effect on population. What we need to do first I'd push for habitat improvements than focus on predator control 

[vdep217]

5 minutes ago, chenrossi said:

It doesn't despite many still walking into a wall convinced it somehow does matter (looks something like this) .... Example, I've taken several people who have harvested birds I would have otherwise personally chased myself if I didn't have them along. I've been finding some new tag soup recipes in between taking people. So what's the only difference? Who shot the bird and got to put their tag on it, that's it. Rocket science!!!! Instead of me shooting 8 myself with the tags I have, 8 different people did on their 1 tag. Harvest is still the exact same. Math is hard for some to grasp I guess.  

Most of those guys want it to be fair.  But those guys not harvesting wouldn't any way

[vdep217]

I've seen more birds this year in 14 than the last couple.  The issue is they have adapted to the houses during nesting season.  It dosnt help that every senior has a bird feeder and put corn in their yard for wildlife.  They have no reason to leave

[NJMarine]

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the changes that (for example) Tennessee made a little over a year ago.  I believe they kept open trapping seasons months longer specifically to coincide with turkey nesting periods.  There were other things they implemented and from what I remember it was a bunch of aggressive moves to help the turkey populations.

I'm not sure this would ever happen but creating a separate "nest raider" trapping season (without needing to do trapper education first) for use with dog-proof traps targeting raccoons and possums would be great.  Those DP traps you could teach a 5yr old how to use and they only target the two most detrimental nest raiders known to turkeys.  I'm not trying to disregard fox/coyotes, but one of the main reasons turkeys are so paranoid and skilled to see movement is a built-in defense to those predators.  I personally have no issue with the trapper education course aside from I simply do not have time to devote a weekend to the two day training, plus I am not really interested in trapping anything beyond the nest raiders.

[mazzgolf]

33 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

Because it is not fair according to some. 

32 minutes ago, vdep217 said:

Most of those guys want it to be fair.

I figured that was part of it - but that's exactly why I prefaced my comment with, "From a conservation viewpoint"...

The conversation people are having is all about "why don't we have as many turkeys as before?" And the answer to that will have nothing to do with fairness. As @chenrossi says, too - who cares who kills the birds? 100 hunters kill 1? 1 hunter kill 100? It's all the same. One may not be fair over the other, but that is irrelevant to the effect on the turkey population.

If it's a question of we are killing too many turkeys, then NJ needs to lower the quota (the number of permits it sells) - it isn't about how many an individual hunter can, or should, kill. That's not NJ's system.

Now, if people want to have a different discussion - about the fairness (or not) of the current system - that's fine. But that has nothing to do with the harvest or the turkey population or why the turkey numbers are lower. The answer to that lies elsewhere.

[fab]

Having the chance or calling in 8 different Tom’s in a season in north jersey is a thing of the past 

 

I believe their are 500 tags a week in 6 and 7.  So that’s 5000 tags or the chance to take 5000 birds.   The combined harvest for those two zones is under 100.   

 

 

[mazzgolf]

1 hour ago, fab said:

I believe their are 500 tags a week in 6 and 7.  So that’s 5000 tags or the chance to take 5000 birds.   The combined harvest for those two zones is under 100.   

5000 tags AVAILABLE for purchase, but hardly anyone is buying them for those zones. So not many people are hunting them.

Look at the leftovers (they already removed A and B weeks, but we can still what is left for C, D and E:

https://nj.aspirafocus.com/internetsales/Home/AvailablePermits

Forget the youth permit one... look at the others.

Zone 6, only 59 were bought for C, 51 for D, 156 for E.

Zone 7, only 65 were bought for C, 43 for D, 162 for E.

To ballpark (since we don't have the numbers now), Let's assume the same were bought for A as for E, and the same for B as C. 

That means for zone 6 only 481 permits were bought (156+59+59+51+156).

For zone 7 only 497 permits were bought (162+65+65+43+162).

Round up - roughly a combined 1,000 permits were bought total for both zones 6 and 7 for the entirety of the sprint turkey season. Only 20% of the 5,000 available for purchase.

Based on that, I wouldn't expect a large combined harvest for zones 6/7 anyway.

Edited May 9 by mazzgolf

[fab]

I live ur a figures guy 

 

so the success ratio is 10 percent then which is good 

 

but also the point was that in theory they could kill 5000 birds.   
 

i no In  2020 i was very luck to have harvested 2 birds in a week in zone 6.    I got the one Monday and when I was driving home 2 Tom’s ran in front of the truck so I purchased a second tag.   Tues I couldn’t find them but wed I did and connected.   Nice when the tags don’t sell out.  
 

Back in the 90s I use to get 4 a and 4c by mail and maybe then a 5 6 or 7 d over the counter as 1 -4 were usually all sold out 

 

I know the state increased the tag numbers slightly but I’m guessing the number of hunters must’ve declined as well in the past 25 or 30 years

 

 

[mazzgolf]

It's almost like -- "Is it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy?"

No one hunts these zones anymore because no one is killing any birds. But is no one killing any birds because no one is hunting these zones??

I dunno - just asking the question.

[fab]

So I see guys in the spots that I no use to hold birds    
 

it’s not teaming with ppl cuz theirs so few birds 

 

U can hear a Tom a long way off in the mts.   They are their.  Far and few between and not in the numbers they had 25 30 years ago

 

 

[vdep217]

55 minutes ago, fab said:

So I see guys in the spots that I no use to hold birds    
 

it’s not teaming with ppl cuz theirs so few birds 

 

U can hear a Tom a long way off in the mts.   They are their.  Far and few between and not in the numbers they had 25 30 years ago

 

 

I also see birds now in spots that never had them

[Fred Flintstone]

5 hours ago, vdep217 said:

Because it is not fair according to some.  I did not take a bird this year.  Still might during d but I let a few Jake's go and was close a few times on long beards.  Spring harvests have very little effect on population. What we need to do first I'd push for habitat improvements than focus on predator control 

   Sterling Forest has a very active Lumber Operation in full force  in different sections year to year.

 That ended in 1999 when Sterling Forest became State Land Managed by the PIPC.