supplemental directives and new disqualifiers

[Bucndoe]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Dwayne said:

Good morning all!

 

I would like to train to get my conceal carry permit, but I have a few questions

 

Some time ago when I applied for my firearm ID card and permit to purchase a handgun, I was rejected because I disclosed that I voluntarily saw a psychiatrist for counseling. An attorney assisted me in appealing the denial and I was granted the permit on appeal. I was never admitted  or commited to an outpatient or impatient facility or provided medication. I saw a different doctor for a phyc test and passed. Hence the reason that I was granted the permit on appeal.

 

With the new disqualifier for owning firearms in New Jersey for voluntarily seeing a psychiatrist. Will this new disqualifier disqualify me from continuing to own a firearm, to apply for new permits, or to apply for a concealed carry permit?

Thank you

If you apply for a Carry Permit with the past circumstances you laid out, be prepared to be denied and the possibility of facing a Seizure Order of your Firearms and FID Card. It's occurring now in some counties in the State with the change/additions of disqualifiers.

Edited January 31 by Bucndoe

[hostak126]

Unfortunately expungements aren't cheap and Nappen is the man to see. Even after a successful court ordered expungement you aren't in the clear just yet. The court ordered expungement is on paper, but it's not in the computer system! Thus you have another delay and denial of your Rights that may take up to another year. Listen to Nappen's latest podcast on Gun Lawyer episode 170.

The State is currently being sued for delays entering court ordered expungements into the online system.

[Kayak Ken]

2 hours ago, hostak126 said:

Unfortunately expungements aren't cheap and Nappen is the man to see. Even after a successful court ordered expungement you aren't in the clear just yet. The court ordered expungement is on paper, but it's not in the computer system! Thus you have another delay and denial of your Rights that may take up to another year. Listen to Nappen's latest podcast on Gun Lawyer episode 170.

The State is currently being sued for delays entering court ordered expungements into the online system.

Do you know how much he charges for an appeal? 

[hostak126]

4 hours ago, Kayak Ken said:

Do you know how much he charges for an appeal? 

Best to contact his office. I believe and this pretty much hearsay just to get him on retainer is 5K 

[Dwayne]

Why would a few office visit to a psychologist cause me to go through all of that, when I was never commited or admitted? Earlier I wrote Psychiatrist, but that was incorrect.

Edited January 30 by Dwayne

[Dwayne]

Thank you for responding

Edited January 30 by Dwayne

[hostak126]

2 hours ago, Dwayne said:

Why would a few office visit to a psychologist cause me to go through all of that, when I was never commited or admitted? Earlier I wrote Psychiatrist, but that was incorrect.

The State is "fishing for any information" they can use to deny you. If you look at the actual law it states voluntary, involuntary, and court ordered commitments. It says NOTHING about seeing a psychiatrist who you might consider seeing if your are grieving the loss of someone close to you, or any other personal issues you're looking to overcome.

The only place you will see something about asking if you've essentially visited a psychiatrist is on the FID application and the handgun purchase permit application. 

[Bucndoe]

2 hours ago, Dwayne said:

Why would a few office visit to a psychologist cause me to go through all of that, when I was never commited or admitted? Earlier I wrote Psychiatrist, but that was incorrect.

Because you disclosed it initially when you didn't have to and now it's  part of your Firearms File with the issuing agency. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[Bucndoe]

1 hour ago, hostak126 said:

The State is "fishing for any information" they can use to deny you. If you look at the actual law it states voluntary, involuntary, and court ordered commitments. It says NOTHING about seeing a psychiatrist who you might consider seeing if your are grieving the loss of someone close to you, or any other personal issues you're looking to overcome.

The only place you will see something about asking if you've essentially visited a psychiatrist is on the FID application and the handgun purchase permit application. 

It's not a fishing expedition. He listed it on his initial application, was denied, appealed and won. It's now a part of his file and if he applies for a Carry Permit, its there. He can't not list it now because he will be filing and swearing to a false application.

Your answer to him is a round peg for a square hole and your emotions are clouding the facts that he posted. Answers to these situations are not universal, they are dependent on the facts of each situation.

Edited January 30 by Bucndoe

[Dwayne]

I read the letter from the psychologist that was sent to the court in 2013. He stated that it was two office visits and he saw no reason why I should not have a firearm in my possession. The documents were reviewed by the firearms detective, the chief of police and the judge, and the appeal was granted. From my understanding New Jersey is looking to screw individuals who have been committed and or admitted whether voluntarily or involuntarily. 

[Bucndoe]

14 minutes ago, Dwayne said:

I read the letter from the psychologist that was sent to the court in 2013. He stated that it was two office visits and he saw no reason why I should not have a firearm in my possession. The documents were reviewed by the firearms detective, the chief of police and the judge, and the appeal was granted. From my understanding New Jersey is looking to screw individuals who have been committed and or admitted whether voluntarily or involuntarily. 

The statute that allowed the submitting of that letter on your behalf was ammended in December 2022. Assembly Bill A4769. It is no longer permitted.

See 2C:58-3.c.(13)

[Bucndoe]

18 hours ago, hostak126 said:

The State is "fishing for any information" they can use to deny you. If you look at the actual law it states voluntary, involuntary, and court ordered commitments. It says NOTHING about seeing a psychiatrist who you might consider seeing if your are grieving the loss of someone close to you, or any other personal issues you're looking to overcome.

The only place you will see something about asking if you've essentially visited a psychiatrist is on the FID application and the handgun purchase permit application. 

Incorrect. It absolutely does now and is a disqualifier. Law was amended in December 2022. See NJ 2C:58-3.c.(13)

 

Edited January 31 by Bucndoe

[Bucksnbows]

13 hours ago, Dwayne said:

I read the letter from the psychologist that was sent to the court in 2013. He stated that it was two office visits and he saw no reason why I should not have a firearm in my possession. The documents were reviewed by the firearms detective, the chief of police and the judge, and the appeal was granted. From my understanding New Jersey is looking to screw individuals who have been committed and or admitted whether voluntarily or involuntarily. 

Your last sentence makes no sense to me. No states allow the mentally ill to own guns. It’s not just NJ. 

[Dwayne]

If you read the disqualifier. It states people were getting caught for lying. Meaning, people were answering no to those questions when they were sick. I proved that I am in good health. I took a psych test that cost $2000.00. I did not state I'm crazy. I state that I was denied because I saw a psychologist and was approved on appeal. I also stated that I was never admitted, committed, or treated for any mental issues. I was only concerned because I was denied before by incorrectly answering question 26 and thought that it might affect me trying to get a conceal permit.

[Bucndoe]

5 hours ago, Dwayne said:

If you read the disqualifier. It states people were getting caught for lying. Meaning, people were answering no to those questions when they were sick. I proved that I am in good health. I took a psych test that cost $2000.00. I did not state I'm crazy. I state that I was denied because I saw a psychologist and was approved on appeal. I also stated that I was never admitted, committed, or treated for any mental issues. I was only concerned because I was denied before by incorrectly answering question 26 and thought that it might affect me trying to get a conceal permit.

You will be denied because of the amended statute covering "Who may obtain", specifically See NJ 2C:58-3.c.(13).

The process you went through to be cleared with a note from NJ licensed doctor no longer exists. I answered this already at the top of this page. No matter how many times you repeat your situation, the outcome will not change based on how the NJ law was changed due to the Bruen Ruling in the US Supreme Court. 

The Bruen decision ruled on the Carry Permit that you seek and the amended statute was NJ's answer to it.