Stokes Road Closures Question

[bwd172]

From the Water Gap's Facebook page.

Superintendent John J. Donahue announced that the 2017 winter weather plan for Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area includes keeping several visitor use sites open and closing others. “Plowing and treating the main roads through the park is a top priority when we have snow and ice. Secondary roads, administrative buildings, and visitor use sites will be plowed after the main roads have been cleared and are safe for travel and may be closed temporarily in the interim,” said Donahue.

The following locations will remain OPEN through the winter but may not be cleared of snow and ice immediately following a storm: Blue Mountain Lakes, Smithfield Beach, Dingmans Access, Milford Beach, Point of Gap Overlook, and Millbrook Village. The McDade Recreational Trail is accessible from Smithfield Beach, Milford Beach and Dingmans Access.

Sites that are CLOSED for the remainder of the winter include: Bushkill Access, Eshback Access, Hialeah Picnic Area, George W. Childs Recreation Site, Dingmans Falls Visitor Center, Poxono Boat Launch, Turtle Beach, Van Campen Inn, Watergate Recreation Site, Namanock Recreation Site, Resort Point Overlook, Raymondskill Falls, Mountain Road (Buttermilk Falls), Kittatinny Point, and the dirt section of Old Mine Road south of Van Campen Inn. The sites that are closed through the winter were selected based on factors including water supply systems requiring winterization, reduced custodial staff, and other priorities for snow and ice removal. ^kts

[1957Buck]

bwd172 That is a heads up Thanks Bill

[1957Buck]

I am in agreement with Dave B. Obviously, the families who lost land in this area were the victims of severe government overreach. However, there is nothing we can do about that at this point and have to look at the positives in that it created a swath of undeveloped public land that extends for miles. Honestly, and I am probably very much in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind seeing some currently seasonal roads closed completely. Obviously selfish motives, but I think hunting would improve if areas were harder to access(this goes for the majority of our larger parks). This in conjunction with a forest mgmt plan would do wonders. 

 

I do agree that the buildings around walpack center there could be utilized in a more positive manner. However, i wouldn't want to see any further development within the park or large parking lots to support any touristy attractions. that would just detract from the natural beauty that exists there. 

 

While we can't go back in time and undo the wrongs, we can ensure that the sierra club and others dont get their wish of this transitioning from the DWGNRA to the DWG National Park. I dont know if you've seen the plans they've laid out, but it includes visitor centers, bus depots, and paved "hiking trails" from top to bottom on either side of the Delaware. 

There are some Roads that have been closed completely almost from the Start those being the ones that went back to Blue Mountain Lake once they became impossible to navigate they were closed they were Dirt. the other road to Sunset Lake is paved. Some of the best Grouse hunting was along those closed roads. There is also a Lookout point on the west rd worth hiking too. it has been some 25 years since I was at the lake. and remember when they destroyed a swap and acres of Laural to make Bule Mountain Lake so I agree with you the less development the better. 

[stratocaster]

Are you serious about the wonderful hunting? Or just wonderful hunting for NJ?  I wonder if you look at it from the eyes of someone whose sustenance came from the property and in the hopes that one day they might be able to sell the land for more than they paid or turn it over to their kids.  This issue doesn't exist in other parts of the state.  I can't agree that taking someones property by force to "benefit" society works.  We got rid of colonies a long time ago and for good reason. 

[bwd172]

There are some Roads that have been closed completely almost from the Start those being the ones that went back to Blue Mountain Lake once they became impossible to navigate they were closed they were Dirt. the other road to Sunset Lake is paved. Some of the best Grouse hunting was along those closed roads. There is also a Lookout point on the west rd worth hiking too. it has been some 25 years since I was at the lake. and remember when they destroyed a swap and acres of Laural to make Bule Mountain Lake so I agree with you the less development the better.

 

A few years ago, I met one of the guys who built the dam for Blue Mt. Lakes. I was in my Jon boat fishing, and he said "there is a trench about 14' deep just on the other side of the island. I should know, I dug it." Talked with him and his brother for awhile. He grew up in the house back in the woods across from the Walpack Inn.

[Dave B.]

Just to add some clarity to the eminent domain takings of land in the valley, the original reason behind that boondoggle was to build the Tock's Island dam and flood the valley and the Delaware River for recreational use.  It would have killed off several native trout streams as well as all that wonderful hunting ground, and we should all be glad the dam was never built.  But the end result doesn't change; the eminent domain takings were a bad idea and the abandonment of all those historic properties are criminal in my estimation, not that any politician will ever have to "pay" for their bad decisions.   

 

All that said, I find that a halfway decent 4x4 with adequate tire treads can more or less traverse any of those roads unless we get deep snow which currently is a non-issue.  I go more or less anywhere in my Highlander which is hardly a hard core 4x4 and that includes most winters up there.  Love fishing the Flat Brook in winter!  I've even been known to fish it on snowshoes with my fly rod in hand.

Actually the Tocks Island dam project was purportedly for more than just recreational purposes. It was supposed to be first and foremost for both flood control and water supply. Part of the problem was that the Army Corps of Engineers did not do their due diligence in the areas of geology and sediment load prior to bulldogging their way into taking everyone's land and homes. After they'd acquired nearly all of the land (there were still a very few holdouts battling in court) they then began their studies. In short, the surface strata of the mountain on the Jersey side of the proposed dam location is still rising at the rate of approx. 1 inch every 10 years which would in turn cause that side of the dam to rise and crack in time. Further they discovered there was up to 200 feet of sediment in the base of the valley which would have to be removed in order to anchor the base of the dam in the bedrock. Finally, it was determined that the sediment load carried by the river would cause the reservoir created by the dam to become approx. 60% silted in within a coup[le of decades thereby greatly diminishing the water supply aspect of the project. All of these factors finally persuaded the Corps to abandon the project, however it was only 'shelved' by congress at that time. The project was not officially de-commissioned until I believe 1994.

 

 Meanwhile the Army offered the former landowners 2 options, buy back your property, albeit for more than they were paid for it, or acquire a lifetime lease or 'life rights', which would have been transferable to their heirs. Of course most folks couldn't afford to purchase so they opted for the lease. After awhile the Army decided they didn't like the business of being landlords so they petitioned congress to transfer the land to the Dept of Interior which they did, who in turn handed it over to National Parks and it became the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. Of course now Park Service policy went into effect, which included NO life rights and NO part-time residents. People could acquire leases that were renewable every 5 years, at the discretion of the park superintendent. As for those folks who had summer/vacation properties they were just plain put out, period. To this day I have a very bad attitude towards the Nat. Park Serv. as a result of seeing my friends and all the other folks who lost their family homes and land to this debacle have to pay rent to the federal govt for homes they and/or their ancestors built. Mind you, I have no qualms with the men and women in uniform who patrol the park and protect both the visitors and the resources, it's the administration and bureaucracy behind it that I harbor animosity towards.

 

 One of the families I was fortunate enough to be friends with was the last of the Van Campens to inhabit the valley. The 2 brothers Harold and Walter were both good, gentle men. Walter sadly died while delivering the mail one winter due to hitting an ice patch near Walpack, and Harold passed of a sudden massive heart attack many years later at their home on the river just below what is now Turtle Beach swimming area, formerly the Old Coppermine Inn and Campground owned by my friend Don "Doc' Von Hagen who was also the long-standing mayor of the now defunct Pahaquarry Twp.

 

  Anyway my apologies for the long post and bit of a rant, just a bit of background on the area so many of us are fortunate enough to enjoy these days.

[Nomad]

...

[1957Buck]

Are you serious about the wonderful hunting? Or just wonderful hunting for NJ?  I wonder if you look at it from the eyes of someone whose sustenance came from the property and in the hopes that one day they might be able to sell the land for more than they paid or turn it over to their kids.  This issue doesn't exist in other parts of the state.  I can't agree that taking someones property by force to "benefit" society works.  We got rid of colonies a long time ago and for good reason. 

Did I miss something 

[Dave B.]

...

Nice! Thanks for the pic Nomad!

[1957Buck]

A few years ago, I met one of the guys who built the dam for Blue Mt. Lakes. I was in my Jon boat fishing, and he said "there is a trench about 14' deep just on the other side of the island. I should know, I dug it." Talked with him and his brother for awhile. He grew up in the house back in the woods across from the Walpack Inn.

There was a previous post on another subject that the poster said he lived in Walpack ?????  Damn, I loved that Valley from Rt 80 The Gap to Rt 206. I hunted many areas of it from 1951 up today where I now I just enjoy driving the roads of the valley. Remembering the Adventures I shared with my Father. We knew many Residents that lived in Layton, Bevans, Roy, Walpack. Dingmans. to name a few. 

[bwd172]

There was a previous post on another subject that the poster said he lived in Walpack ?????  Damn, I loved that Valley from Rt 80 The Gap to Rt 206. I hunted many areas of it from 1951 up today where I now I just enjoy driving the roads of the valley. Remembering the Adventures I shared with my Father. We knew many Residents that lived in Layton, Bevans, Roy, Walpack. Dingmans. to name a few.

 

I'm in the campground now. My dad hunted there for years. His friend's father had a place on the FB where Buttermilk's creek emptied into it. Last name was Frickie. The Walpack Historical Society is doing a good job of restoring buildings and getting the areas history before its former residents pass on.

[Stevo]

Anyone know if the one way road going up to Sunrise Mountain is open?  I plan on going up there to hunt Coyotes and picked out some areas along there when I was Turkey hunting. I see there is a gate as you enter the Park. It is paved but would get very sketchy if covered in ice. And some spots are right along cliffs.

[Rusty]

Anyone know if the one way road going up to Sunrise Mountain is open?  I plan on going up there to hunt Coyotes and picked out some areas along there when I was Turkey hunting. I see there is a gate as you enter the Park. It is paved but would get very sketchy if covered in ice. And some spots are right along cliffs.

 

 

That is usually gated shut for the winter, although I haven't been there this year.  

[buckfever1974]

There was a previous post on another subject that the poster said he lived in Walpack ?????  Damn, I loved that Valley from Rt 80 The Gap to Rt 206. I hunted many areas of it from 1951 up today where I now I just enjoy driving the roads of the valley. Remembering the Adventures I shared with my Father. We knew many Residents that lived in Layton, Bevans, Roy, Walpack. Dingmans. to name a few. 

Once I start hitting the dipping roads past Layton going towards the upper fields of the Flatbrook WMA, I have flashbacks to being with my dad headed to the Roy Bridge for trout fishing.  It's a beautiful area.

[1957Buck]

Once I start hitting the dipping roads past Layton going towards the upper fields of the Flatbrook WMA, I have flashbacks to being with my dad headed to the Roy Bridge for trout fishing.  It's a beautiful area.

Glad there are hunters who have the respect and emotions of the outdoors to pass along to other generations. When I take my Son to my brothers in Alaska it does not spoil the memories of the NJ Outdoors. but spoils the fishing experiences.