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Tommy D and his sea bass report

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CaptTB' date='

 

Thanks for coming by and offering your side of the story!

 

I can only speak for myself, as I wasn't there obviously, and can't comment on who was on board number wise, but I'd like to ask a fair question...one that I don't believe I've seen asked here or on NJFishing.com.

 

Is it possible there were others on board that weren't paying customers, that could have contributed to the misunderstanding and variance in counting? I'm assuming the 50-55 limitation is paying customers only? Does that account for any non-paying customers (friends, working mates, non-working but fishing mates, family, etc), or other crew that may have been on the boat but not part of that count/sheet?[/quote'] No, there were not riders or freebies on board (sometimes Erik, Howard's son will fish or a mate that does not work as you said, hence the reason we call them freebies) and all the crew he had scheduled for the trip worked the trip. Not counting the two captains and crew there were 50 passengers on board total.

 

Again, thank you for coming by, sharing your side, and keeping things civil in the discussion. I know the other thread got pretty heated on NJFishing.com, so lets all try to keep it from heading in that direction here!

Thanks for asking the question.

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Tom, I knew that's what happened before I read your story!I definitely can picture the mayhem!Next time take A picture,not that it will change there policy,jersey s*ck's! The captain is under pressure from the owner,the owner is under pressure to pay the,bill's fuel/mates/docking,NJ tax's etc.and the poor guy trying to have a nice fishn trip,get's treated like a sardine!That's why I stopped going on head boat's a long time ago!I don't have a boat anymore,I go strrictly on friend's or private charter's,there's other boat's I,m sure you will find enjoyable,I already knew that's not the one,lookin forward to your future post's of good trip's! :popcorn:

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Tom' date=' I knew that's what happened before I read your story!I definitely can picture the mayhem!Next time take A picture,not that it will change there policy,jersey s*ck's! The captain is under pressure from the owner,the owner is under pressure to pay the,bill's fuel/mates/docking,NJ tax's etc.and the poor guy trying to have a nice fishn trip,get's treated like a sardine!That's why I stopped going on head boat's a long time ago!I don't have a boat anymore,I go strrictly on friend's or private charter's,there's other boat's I,m sure you will find enjoyable,I already knew that's not the one,lookin forward to your future post's of good trip's! :popcorn:

[/quote']

Perhaps that does happen. Except in this case there were less people on board than the max taken for the trip (55) plus the captain is the owner and only has whatever pressure he puts on himself.

 

The number quoted by Mr. Daly was double what was actually on board as was verified by other passengers on the trip. By Mr. Daly's own admission he did not even count the people or even attempt to count them (his words) so in truth he had no idea how many people were on board. If it helps put anyone's mind at ease, feel free to stop by our office any time (call first to make sure I will be there or working on the dock) and I will gladly show you the actual trip sheet from the boat with the people names and monies as they were filled in on the actual boat that night (not just the reservation book from the ofice) and will gladly call other customers that were on the trip if you like. The simple fact of the matter is that the numbers bandied about by Mr. Daly of passenger count were not accurate, not by a long shot. Mr. Daly's comments and posts have also changed their focus as time has gone on, mentioning things here now that were never mentioned before and downplaying (and even removing) the primary focus of his original post.

 

That, however, does not change the fact that had he fished the trip he would have had 5 foot of rail space per person to fish, not packed in like sardines or shoulder to shoulder or any such nonsense.

It is too bad you have been soured to partyboat fishing, to each his own.

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How about the smoking in the cabin, you seem to avoid this topic in every thread???

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How about the smoking in the cabin' date=' you seem to avoid this topic in every thread???

[/quote']

Actually I responded THREE different times to that in TWO different threads.

 

As originally stated (and at least two more times) I was not at the boat before it sailed so I could not respond to something I did not witness. (again, I stated this very fact more than once)

 

However, I immediately contacted Howard to find out a) how many people were on the boat since last count when i had spoken to him about an hour before the trip sailed it was 51 and B) to find out what crew member was behind the bar prior to the trip and was smoking.

 

The crew was (as I suggested Howard to do) given a verbal ass reaming and the crew was told in no uncertain terms that if any crew are smoking in the cabin they are history. As to a customer smoking I have no idea since again, I was not there. However, not a single complaint was made by anyone on board. I have no doubt a customer may have lit up in the cabin. Typically all it takes is asking them to go outside and not smoke in the cabin or for a crew member to tell them they cannot smoke in the cabin.

 

I can honestly say anytime I have heard of this on any boat the typical response is what I just stated, not leaving the boat without actually saying anything to anyone.

 

Please let's try to be factual. I have not avoided this subject as you claim and my initial response has been in more than one thread.

Mr. Daly mentioned smoking as an aside in his initial post, and embellished even that comment in this one compared to the original.

 

I focused on his gross exaggeration of passengers on board since that was what he started his original post with and because, as I stated to him more than once in the original thread, because I was not at the boat and could not verify someone smoking but promised I would find out.

 

Mr. Daly posted here after already seeing both copies of the reservation book (clearly showing the names stopped in the low 40's) as well as a post from a customer who was on the trip (as he had stated he wanted to see, but never responded to) and did not even put the correct info up. he was responded to long before the vessel ever returned to the dock (unlike what he claims here) and it was posted numerous times that i was in contact with the boat, when it would dock (hours after my initial response to him) etc.

 

i can only guess he was peaved about getting down and being one of the last people down instead of one of the earlier ones, and in his disappointment got carried away with his descriptions of what transpired. Often people when they are upset or disappointed will simply react without thinking. Dealing with the public my entire life I have seen it before.

 

Even a legitimate complaint can be taken to a ridiculous level when tempers flare. that is why people will usually speak to the person in charge first to try and get things straightened out.

 

too bad he did not simply talk to the captain right there at the dock or at least attempt to support his claims of the number of passengers on board.

 

As already stated, anyone, including Mr. Daly, are welcome to come down, see the actual list right off the boat from that day along with speaking to other people that were actually on the boat that night.

 

I have nothing to hide and have not posted ANYTHING that is not 100% verifiable.

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Ok then, Tom's a huge lier, I go it, thanks..... :cheers:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only thing is I know better.:acclaim:

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Ok then' date=' Tom's a huge lier, I go it, thanks..... :cheers:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only thing is I know better.:acclaim:

So did I say someone was not smoking? Nope. It is entirely possible. As to the number of people onboard Mr. Daly himself stated that he did not even attempt to count the number of people on board, whereas I have provided proof as has a customer from that very trip. I have also offered the chance for him or anyone else to see and hear for themselves exactly how many people were on board.

 

Obviously you are his friend or friendly with him so you wish to defend him no matter what, regardless of the facts.

 

That is admirable. However, it does not change the fact that his biggest issue and the thing he made the biggest stink about (the supposed overcrowding) never actually happened.

 

Once the trip sailed there would have been even fewer people in the cabin since 16 of them would be down in the bunk room, leaving only 34 people in that big cabin.

 

I have no illusions about getting Mr. Daly or a friend or acquaintance of his to come back to our boats. However, I will not let a statement stand unchallenged that is not accurate, and Mr. Daly's claims of how many people were on board and that we took more people than advertised is simply not accurate, and that fact is easy to prove (and has been proven already by a third party)

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Party boats do get a bad rap from false claims. Ive heard it myself about boats that i know are very professional and courteous. Not taking a side here but the beauty of nj is that there are plenty of boats to choose from.

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CaptTB,

 

I think the problem for many here is that they are personal and long standing friends of Tom's. It's hard for many of us to believe he would intentionally over-embellish and lie, he has always been a up front and stand up guy when it comes to serious matters. He's not the type to intentionally try to tarnish a business, in fact he has given your family business on other trips and praised them on their efforts. It is certainly possible he could have been wrong, or in the heat of the moment and frustration with the situation (between cooler ridden aisles, smokers in the cabin, etc) that the negativity compounded and a rash assessment (around the number of people, conditions of the boat, etc) was made. That is indeed possible.

 

But the fact is...no one has any truly verifiable facts (at this point in time).

We don't know if Tom's assessment was truly or even remotely accurate.

We don't know if your paid customer sheet is an accurate representation of the crowd on that boat.

We don't know if the one patron would confirmed your side is telling the truth.

There's no concrete evidence, it's all word of mouth or hand written oath...and really word against word.

 

And I can completely understand the frustration level from each of you...when you BOTH feel that you are right and telling the truth.

If you are telling the truth, the other person MUST be lying...how can it be any other way?

At this point, you can both call each other liars until the end of time, but it won't achieve anything.

It's a losing battle.

You both believe you are right, yet neither can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

And I'm sure as much as Tom feels his assessment is correct, you feel your own assessment and respective evidence is correct.

If you both believe you are correct (at this point, after this much discussion)...it's clear that isn't going to change.

 

I think it's time to just let this trip pass and for each of you to move on.

It probably won't sit well with either of you because you both feel you've been wronged to a degree, but there is no "solution" to this dispute, other than to accept it and move on.

It would be great if you guys could somehow reach a common understanding around this, but I just don't think it will happen.

 

As long as it's civil, I'll leave it up to you guys if you'd like to continue discussing it.

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Party boats do get a bad rap from false claims. Ive heard it myself about boats that i know are very professional and courteous. Not taking a side here but the beauty of nj is that there are plenty of boats to choose from.

 

I think this is just the nature of the beast when it comes to ANY business. It is going to happen. It's not always roses. Sooner or later' date=' a customer will reactive negatively to your product. And in this day and age, communicating both the good and the bad [u']online[/u] is a common practice. It would be great if customers would go directly to the owner, but it just doesn't happen all that often...it's not realistic to expect it, especially with forums such as this and many others that are sound boards for sharing experiences (good and bad).

 

Even as I have started this site, I'm sure you can imagine the negative I've received around it. It is what it is...I expect it, I understand it...all I can do is continue to evolve my own business and consider the customer complaints/concerns to help in the evolution. And it's equally important HOW I address those customers and concerns. I realize this is easier said than done at times, but the less personal you make business...IMO, the more successful it will be.

 

In the case of this trip, what turned into a fiasco of threads could have been mitigated down with a much calmer approach (from all parties). Again, sometimes easier said than done. Everyone has their own line drawn in the sand, and once it's crossed...reason goes out the window.

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I think this is just the nature of the beast when it comes to ANY business. It is going to happen. It's not always roses. Sooner or later' date=' a customer will reactive negatively to your product. And in this day and age, communicating both the good and the bad [u']online[/u] is a common practice. It would be great if customers would go directly to the owner, but it just doesn't happen all that often...it's not realistic to expect it, especially with forums such as this and many others that are sound boards for sharing experiences (good and bad).

 

Even as I have started this site, I'm sure you can imagine the negative I've received around it. It is what it is...I expect it, I understand it...all I can do is continue to evolve my own business and consider the customer complaints/concerns to help in the evolution. And it's equally important HOW I address those customers and concerns. I realize this is easier said than done at times, but the less personal you make business...IMO, the more successful it will be.

 

In the case of this trip, what turned into a fiasco of threads could have been mitigated down with a much calmer approach (from all parties). Again, sometimes easier said than done. Everyone has their own line drawn in the sand, and once it's crossed...reason goes out the window.

 

 

Man did you nail in your 3rd sentence. It's the age of online... Years ago guys would just complain about these situations amongst close friends .. With all these forums nowadays, you can reach the public eye faster and let the public know what is going on...

 

BNJ really like how your handling this...kudos to you

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CaptTB' date='

 

I think the problem for many here is that they are personal and long standing friends of Tom's. It's hard for many of us to believe he would intentionally over-embellish and lie, he has always been a up front and stand up guy when it comes to serious matters. He's not the type to intentionally try to tarnish a business, in fact he has given your family business on other trips and praised them on their efforts. It is certainly possible he could have been wrong, or in the heat of the moment and frustration with the situation (between cooler ridden aisles, smokers in the cabin, etc) that the negativity compounded and a rash assessment (around the number of people, conditions of the boat, etc) was made. That is indeed possible.

 

But the fact is...no one has any truly verifiable facts (at this point in time).

We don't know if Tom's assessment was truly or even remotely accurate.

We don't know if your paid customer sheet is an accurate representation of the crowd on that boat.

We don't know if the one patron would confirmed your side is telling the truth.

There's no concrete evidence, it's all word of mouth or hand written oath...and really word against word.

 

And I can completely understand the frustration level from each of you...when you BOTH feel that you are right and telling the truth.

If you are telling the truth, the other person MUST be lying...how can it be any other way?

At this point, you can both call each other liars until the end of time, but it won't achieve anything.

It's a losing battle.

You both believe you are right, yet neither can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

And I'm sure as much as Tom feels his assessment is correct, you feel your own assessment and respective evidence is correct.

If you both believe you are correct (at this point, after this much discussion)...it's clear that isn't going to change.

 

I think it's time to just let this trip pass and for each of you to move on.

It probably won't sit well with either of you because you both feel you've been wronged to a degree, but there is no "solution" to this dispute, other than to accept it and move on.

It would be great if you guys could somehow reach a common understanding around this, but I just don't think it will happen.

 

As long as it's civil, I'll leave it up to you guys if you'd like to continue discussing it.

[/quote']

Thanks for your response, I do appreciate. i will disagree with one point you made (while I agree with or understand most everything else you said) and that is that my information is verifiable. Sure, hearing from customers is "word of mouth" but I have offered to contact multiple people, not just one. In addition, someone can always doubt anything given to them, hell there are people that still believe the moon landings were faked. However, the proof of my claim comes in many forms, not just me saying it like Mr. Daly. As I stated earlier and you also alluded to, perhaps this was simply a case of one thing leading to another and cooler heads did not prevail. So be it.

 

That does not alter the fact that there were 50 people on board and I have 49 other people in addition to the one that already did that can verify that fact. That has been and will continue to be the thing I am most concerned with, the false perception that we were doing something that in reality we were not.

 

People don't have to like our boats or our business. That is why there are different kinds of movies and restaurants and different kinds of fishing boats. Bottom fishing, Bluefishing, Fluke fishing etc. Everyone has their favorite and their least favorite thing. Any business that carries tens of thousands of people a year is going to have those that have bad experiences. You can only try to make sure that number is as small as possible.

 

In the meantime, when something is so obviously incorrect, like Mr. Daly's claims of passenger count, and is also verifiable in multiple ways and from multiple sources, those that tend to still think the moon landings were faked become less credible in their argument. Not less credible people, just less credible in their argument on the topic.

 

As I have said I do not know Mr. Daly. I also know that one person making a claim on the internet, no matter how reputable the person may or may not be, does not negate the statements of others and additional information from the very same situation. Is Angelo now lying too along with me? (not saying you said that, just making an example) How about Kevin? What about all the rest of the people on the very same trip. Are they all going to cover for me?

 

With that line of thinking someone could come one every other day, make a claim, and it would be no less believable than the truth? That I do not agree with.

 

But I do see your point and again I appreciate your responses and taking the time to be involved in the discussion. You are right this will never be resolved, I never expected it to be resolved. However, Mr. Daly is no longer the only one doing the talking. Others from the same trip who have no connection to the business other than they are customers just like Mr. Daly was as well as information straight from the boat refute his claim that we took far more passengers than we advertise.

 

And now the rest of those reading this know it.

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regardless of the facts.
What facts? Only you have facts?

You weren't there remember? So it's all second hand.

The truth my lay in the middle?

 

Tom is not my "friend" per say, I know him from NJH and have been fishing with him once and that's all I need to judge his character and that he's a good guy and not a drama queen, so yes I will side with him on this one, thanks.

 

As to the number of people onboard
Again with the number of people onboard..:banghead:

 

 

Lock it up, it's not going anywhere..

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What facts? Only you have facts?

You weren't there remember? So it's all second hand.

The truth my lay in the middle?

 

Actually, I was there when the boat pulled in (and posted as much on the other site that night) so yes, I do have facts and no it is not all secondhand.

 

However, in my previous post I made my point and do not feel the need to go any further.

 

I appreciate your responses. Thanks for listening.

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Capt TB you can preach about your facts all you want.what doesn't add up is Tom had nothing to gain by posting what he did being that he fished the boat the week before and had.a.great trip if I am not mistaken.So now you say he is a liar and that his facts were all wrong.I can't see a guy that had a great trip the week before just out of the blue drive all they way there get all his shit on the boat probley bought food bait and tackle to just get off for no reason and go home and make up some false claims.Sorry that doesn't add up

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Capt TB you can preach about your facts all you want.what doesn't add up is Tom had nothing to gain by posting what he did being that he fished the boat the week before and had.a.great trip if I am not mistaken.So now you say he is a liar and that his facts were all wrong.I can't see a guy that had a great trip the week before just out of the blue drive all they way there get all his **** on the boat probley bought food bait and tackle to just get off for no reason and go home and make up some false claims.Sorry that doesn't add up

Like I said before' date=' something set him off (in all likelihood someone smoking in the cabin and there being most everyone else there already) and then things got out of control from there. I do not know. He most certainly had something to gain though. namely he was obviously pissed and wanted his pound of flesh, and he got it. Not likely by intentionally lying but by letting his emotions get the better of him and things went overboard. Only he knows. What I do know and has been corroborated by other customers is there were 50 people on board, not the "closer to 100" like Mr. Daly stated. I keep making this point because not only do i take issue with a claim that we falsely advertised our trip which would be the case if his estimates were correct but because that was the primary point of his post. A fact that obviously other saw as well as evidenced by this thread on another site someone from this site just e-mailed me.

 

Probably the best analysis of the circumstances I have seen to date and also another third party independent account of the number of people.

 

http://www.fishingunited.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=13072

 

I should have never said he lied, merely that he exaggerated. As previously stated I do not know the man and should not assume anything, but I did and that was my mistake.

 

But the fact remains that there were 50 passengers on board and as evidenced in the provided link (which directly quotes Mr. Daly's original post) that was the big "issue" he had that evening, or at least that is the way he presented it.

 

Perhaps had I seen the thread when it began and not after hours of it going on and on I would not have jumped the gun and simply presented the facts. Again, that was my mistake.

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I do not know who is telling the truth here or do i care. but the fishing united post tends to lean towards the idea that negative posts should be filtered. I strongly oppose that because if i am spending good hard earned money i want to know the truth about a particular operation and be able to weigh the pros and cons to make a decision as to who deserves my money. That being said, if the good reviews outweigh the negative, then thats who earns the money. If your reputation precedes you dont sweat a few negative reviews.

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Maybe all 50 passengers had calves the size of Toms. THAT would make for a tight squeeze. He can make bell bottoms look like skinny jeans.

 

I will say in all seriousness that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Tom is not a liar.

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Dude pointing me to as web sight that in a round about way disagrees with negative post about trips cause its doesn't benifit its sponsers does not help your argument.According to that websight he would rather have the reports controlled like it was 20 years ago by the paper with its always positive reports.I am done with this I know what I know and know what my group of people that I fish with feels.

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Captain Tony, this message is intended for you, but I am posting it publicly rather than sending it via PM because I want people to know and understand exactly what I’m saying to you and not have to rely on anyone else’s interpretation or version. I’m not intending this to be just another salvo in an ongoing battle. I’m hoping this is the final word on this foolishness.

 

Let me start off by saying that I never intended for this entire incident to grow out of control, as it has, and I am sorry that our discourse has taken on such a personal tone. When I first made my original post on NJ Fishing I was calm, measured, and stated my issues in a matter of fact way. I also made no personal attacks towards anyone. I would also suggest I’ve done my best to set aside emotion throughout this gripe fest, and I hope this came across in my post explaining what happened earlier in this thread.

 

I don’t believe you’ve taken the same dispassionate and impersonal approach. Your first commentary on my initial thread that was pulled from NJF was to call me an absolute liar and to demand that the entire thread be taken down and dismissed as being nothing but lies. I can understand that you probably felt ambushed and that you were probably very hot under the collar and felt that everyone was unfairly piling on. Guess what, I don’t blame you and I probably would have felt the same way.

 

Unfortunately, once I made my initial post the genie was out of the bottle and there was nothing I could do to get it back in. People chimed in with their own experiences, good and bad, and at that point, whether you’ve considered this or not, I became the least of your problems.

 

I acknowledged on the thread that you would certainly respond to my post when you got back in and I expressed my confidence that everything would be addressed and ironed out when that occurred. Unfortunately that did not happen, and nearly every post from you since has gone on to attempt to besmirch my character and call me names. The people who know me well – probably a thousand or more here – will just never believe that I am a liar who totally fabricated my entire experience, they know better. This visceral response did not serve you well then and it is not furthering your efforts to put this episode behind you and your business now.

 

As BowhunterNJ stated in his postings, you and I have different views of what my experience was and no number of testimonials and “factual” documents from you are going to change any of my perception and nothing I can say will affect your view or set of “facts.” Let’s just agree to disagree on the occurrence and move on because life is too short and we both have enough real crap in life to deal with that we have no control over.

 

In my humble opinion, no business or person can get everything right all the time. Moreover, the fact is that no one expects them to. In reality all anyone has the right to expect from anyone or any business is the best they can do and, when something does goes awry, a full faith effort to address the issue vigorously and in a professional and courteous way. Here is where I feel that you’ve not put your best foot forward.

 

I think what you are missing is that it’s not the issues I brought up – perceived or real – to which people are reacting, it’s your response to my observations that is causing your public relations issues. You may claim you don’t have a PR issue, but your seeming obsession with keeping this “debate” alive would suggest you realize you do.

 

It’s not whether you did or did not have 50 or 100 people on board your boat, it’s your response to my perception and statement that you did have them. It’s no longer whether or not there were people in your cabin smoking – it’s your response to me when I claimed there were that people have taken issue with. My observations may not have been all accurate, but they weren’t all lies either.

 

I’m not sure what your level of sensitivity is over my initial post. Perhaps you have heard these observations before and it’s frustrating to you that they’ve come up again, Who knows? I do know, and you should also know, that if this is a completely isolated incident that you’ve never been confronted with and has not a grain of truth in this or previous instances then you shouldn’t even be worried. A person with an unblemished record of credibility could laugh off my perceptions and observations with total impunity because his reputation is secure and he should have no concern of it having been compromised. On the other hand, if there’s previously been some smoke then perhaps some people also now see fire.

 

You may not believe this but I really do not want this whole incident to negatively impact your business. I know your family has worked extremely hard over many, many, years to establish its place among anglers in NJ and I feel absolutely no pleasure or satisfaction from disparaging you or from seeing your business hurt in any way. You provide a valuable service to the fishing community and I am appreciative of what your family has done for the fishing industry in this state. I hope that legacy lasts long after you and I are both in the ground.

 

When people take issue with me or what I’ve said, the impact to me is that they think I’m an idiot and they move on. I’m sure I’ve left a wake of these behind me in life and I’m sure there’ll be more in my future. It is what it is and I have learned to not lose sleep over it.

 

When people take issue with you or what you’ve said then they don’t patronize your business and it affects your livelihood and costs you money. I’d really encourage you to think about and remember this and hopefully agree that it’s time for both of us to put down our slingshots and move on to more productive things. I am quite happy for you to go on and run your business and do so confidently knowing that I am not spreading negativity about you or your business. It really is up to you to decide how we proceed from here.

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Classy Tom...:cheers:

 

 

it’s your response to my observations that is causing your public relations issues.
A freaking men...:up:

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