Climbing Harness Set Up

[Hitemnasty]

From what I’ve read it’s next to impossible to fall out of harness even while inverted. Falling from a treestand with rope up at right height it not really  possible to be inverted unless you were to jump up and dive off. 

[Nomad]

Listen, I don't care what you wear.  If you are athletic you will work it out.

If you are 300 lbs, and can't do a pull up stay out of the trees and in your ground blind for goodness sakes. 

Think of the poor first responders...

[mazzgolf]

I switched to a climbing harness because of the issue with suspension trauma and the pain you get with normal hunting harnesses.

All I would say is - if you are wondering if a climbing harness would be better, worse, or the same as with a hunting harness with respect to this, do a little test. See for yourself. Actually see and feel what your hunting harness does when you are hanging.

Put a single screw in step in a tree (or if you have a ladder stand already in place, walk up a rung or two), attach yourself to the tree normally and then while attached to the tree in your hunting harness, just hang there. Step off the rung of the ladder or the screw-in step and just freely hang as if you were in an actual fall (no feet touching the ground! Legs should dangle as they would be in a true fall). And then just wait  See how fast that groin pain sets in.

Then try another test. Hang freely again, then try to set yourself up with the tension relief strap - to try and stop the groin pain and the trauma. How fast does it take you? And remember, in an actual fall, it's going to take some time before you can get out and deploy your relief strap - it won't be immediate. Figure that you need time to get over the initial shock, time to get your bearings, time to reach and take out the relief strap, time to think and REMEMBER how to use it and how to attach it. I mean, if you have never practiced deploying the relief strap while you are freely hanging, how do you know if you can do it? And if you can, how much time do you think it would take you to do it? Will you remember how to use it? Where it attaches? Have you ever tested your relief strap to make sure it is the proper length for your legs, or will you need to waste time trying to adjust it before it can  relieve the stress?

And remember, you won't be of a calm mind while doing all of this - you are going to be excited, perhaps scared or in shock or even injured. Can you deploy that relief strap in a short enough time to avoid the groin pain and trauma that's coming in just a few minutes?

Then remember that a climbing harness is designed to be worn while actually hanging - climbers are constantly hanging in their harness. So those harnesses are designed to limit the pain and eliminate the trauma that hunting harnesses will cause - you don't need a tension relief strap when you are using a climbing harness because there is no dangerous tension that needs to be relieved.

Anyway - when I did this test myself, it only took me 5 minutes to realize I needed to get rid of my hunting harness and get a climbing harness. The pain came swiftly and was almost unbearable within minutes. With a climbing harness, I had little pain and could hang for a very long time in relative comfort (and I don't see how I would ever end up hanging upside down in a climbing harness, short of, say, having my foot stuck in the stand and my safety line was too long and I fell lower than my foot).

Your experience with your harness might be different - which is why I say everyone should do this test with their own harness and see for yourself. But definitely do the test! At least you'll know what to expect.

[Kayak Ken]

So, when you fall on a traditional, you are hanging from a point between your two shoulders.  All the weight is on your groin and the arteries leading to your legs.  If you hang there for a while, you can get something called supsension trauma.  A rock climbing harness is designed for rock climbers who have to hang all the time.  Here are a few videos that show the advantage in self-recovery:

If you are hanging there for a while you are improperly trying off your tree strap/rope. Your tree strap / rope should be so high up the tree that your teather does not allow you to fall off the stand. With all the crazy gimmicks hunting companies make, I am sure this was looked into multiple times and there is a reason they do not sell them.

[mazzgolf]

44 minutes ago, kenny10177 said:

so high up the tree that your teather does not allow you to fall off the stand

That assumes the tree stand is still in the tree. There are times when you fall because the stand itself fell (like that kid in the climber on the telephone pole (yes, he was a moron, but climbers can slip) or otherwise had a malfunction. I had a friend who told me this story - he was not wearing a harness - when he got into his stand, someone had cut the straps.  Down he went. His buddy didn't find him until later that morning - had to be evacuated by helicopter. Point is, if he had a harness, there would be nothing to climb back into - you are hanging until someone comes get you. At that point, you need to solve the tension relief problem somehow.

Or, what happens if you fall on the climb up or down - you aren't in the stand yet.

[dlist777]

11 hours ago, Pathman said:

Thanks for the info and links DL. I am totally aware of the suspension trauma potential for a harness, but I have to say, it did appear there was also tension on his groin area on the video. Some of the other reasons he mentioned were not accurate I believe. The distance he fell with either harness appeared exactly the same. He also had his back to the tree ( which I don’t feel is an issue, you simply spin yourself around) with the climbing harness. You still need a descension mechanism with either harness if you totally lose your stand from beneath you. His main gripe other then ST, was the tether, but the climbing harness was tethered in front of him, which didn’t allow him to spin around either, yes it was less intrusive regarding drawing a bow however. 

So, it appears that the greatest advantage would be less potential for suspension trauma, and I guess that is a valid consideration for all of us, so we as hunters have to ask ourselves (and I imagine the TMA along with the harness makers also have to ask themselves ) what are the chances that we’d be hanging from a tree with your stand, and steps, totally gone from beneath you? What are the odds, how many times has someone died from, or been in the position, that they could not descend from a tree while hanging in a harness? 

I don’t have the answers to these questions, but I would like to see that type of data before I went to a system without shoulder restraints. 

Oh yeah, and one of my biggest concerns with this climbing harness is the guy in the video did a very controlled “fall” if you can call it that, it was more like he stepped off the platform. I’d like to see someone wearing one of those fall backwards off the stand and see if they stay upright, I don’t believe they would. I think they would look just like the climber in that one pic, you would be upside down. That is impossible with a shoulder harness system.

So, if what I’m saying is accurate, you them have to decide what is your worse fate, possibly hanging upside down in a harness with no shoulder straps, or, hanging upright with the potential for ST if you can’t relieve the pressure or climb back onto your stand, which info it’s still there, there’d be no reason you couldn’t climb back on.

Any videos of climbers falling (uncontrolled) using the climbers harness?  

 

Climbers fall all the time and much greater distances and force.  Hanging upside down is not an issue.  It is very easy to right yourself.  On the other hand, a TMA harness may get you stuck upside down.  It just happened 

[Hitemnasty]

Kenny, how can you sit down if the tree strap is so high up tree? You can’t sit with enough slack, so it needs to be lower, so no matter what if you want to be able to sit when you fall your feet are off the platform probably about waist to mid thigh. Now try and spin yourself strapped from your back and work at getting back up with tension from all your weight pulling you towards the tree from the back the entire time because you’re strapped from the back. It be like trying to stand up from lying down while someone pushes down on your shoulders.

All the points mazz gave and... I don’t think it will be as easy to turn around as it might seem, I don’t want to find out! I don’t see the argument here???? Facts... treestand harness can save your life but if you aren’t trained and properly prepared it will kill you(I’m lucky I never fell because I never had my relief strap handy and wasn’t even aware of suspension trauma till last year, reasons for making the change)! Facts...Climbing harness is meant to hang freely from giving you all the time you need to recover and your tethered from the front making it much easier to climb back up. 

Just because 5 point harnesses are given with every stand and marketed to sell to hunters DOES  NOT make them the better, safer system. 

[Hitemnasty]

28 minutes ago, njbowhntr said:

The key here is not that my method is better than yours mentality.  The key is wearing something, and not just in the treestand.  Most people fall making the step from the tree steps to the treestand.  So you can wear what ever style harness you want, but if you are not tied to the tree  you are still gonna hit the ground.  

If you use a system that your life line goes to the ground with a proper ascension tool then you are 95% safe, the 5% is for if you are knocked unconscious.  Being that you can then descend the tree to the ground if something does occur.  If you life line is only 3' long that gets you no where.  

 I have spent a lot of time in harnesses being an ex-rock climber and ex-arborist.  And in both of those I have always had a line that went all the way to the ground. 

How do you decend with a tight prussic knot? You can’t move that knot when all your weight is hanging on it! 

[Pathman]

1 hour ago, dlist777 said:

Climbers fall all the time and much greater distances and force.  Hanging upside down is not an issue.  It is very easy to right yourself.  On the other hand, a TMA harness may get you stuck upside down.  It just happened 

Well yes, it apparently just happened, but there’s no detail whatsoever, so citing that story as justification for a different type of harness is on the verge of “fake news!” 😁 There had to be some complication for this guy to be upside down for two days. How do you even wind up upside down with a harness on if you’re tethered correctly? Don’t think it’s possible. 

I’m not saying the climbing system is not better, I’m simply trying to understand how it’s better, and if real world situations during hunting( not rock climbing) would make this type of system a better application for hunters. I’m sure there are stories of rock climbers who died with that type of harness on as well, but that’s not the point. Point is to find the best system for a specific application, so at this point I’m still not convinced that the harness without shoulder straps is the best way to go. 

[Livesintrees]

I started using a rock harness several years ago. With that said I still use both styles. I will say if you physically can’t maneuver if you take a fall in a standard harness then it’s time to retaliate what your doing. I have to wear a standard harness daily for work. They are designed to save your life from the immediate danger which is the fall. After that you have 20-30 minutes on average to either self rescue or be rescued before your dead. 

So for me I rank it this way. The rock harness is like wearing nothing. If your gonna walk to your tree, climb it and hook in your golden. If you fall you can legit hang there until you starve to death. Remember guys rely on these to climb freaking mountains. So to sit 20 feet up a tree with the right setup and proper rope I’d say you can trust it. Where it doesn’t win the battle for me is if I’m mobile. Whether that’s hang and hunt when I’m moving sticks and stands and need the lineman’s belt. Ok now hold on.....I know it can be done. I’ve done it. I’ve been watching how people are altering the harness for lineman’s belt use for years. The key word is alter. As soon as you change something’s desgin your risk level increases. With that said buy good carabiners. Buy the right rope. That means actual climbing rope in the right size with the right size accessory cord for the prusik knot. Don’t mix and match. Otherwise once again the risk level increases. The materials and sizes are for a reason. 

Standard style harness. Nice bc the lineman’s belt is exactly where it should be. Easy to work with. I can do my thing. Set the stand. And while still attached use my second rope to tie in to my back tether. 100% connectivity. I don’t like it bc it adds bulk or more so pressure on my shoulders  regardless of the brand. And that makes drawing my bow just feel different. That’s about it for this one. 

 

What you you need to think about is this. IF YOU FALL. A rock harness setup the right way with the right length rope and you aren’t even falling. Your basically just swinging off the platform. Your feet and knees will be st the right height to legit step back into your platform. If for some reason you can’t, you have more time then you would ever need to calm down collect your thoughts and either get back into stand or make a phone call for help. A climbing harness in the same situation you better have a way to relieve pressure off your groin area or you have limited time left on this earth. You need the strength to spin yourself around depending on how you fall. And if your harness has a rip cord style system you better have it set high and tight on that tree or else you are below your platform.  

 

So now here am what I do to ensure I’ll live through either. I always have two ropes. The one I use for a lineman’s and the one for a tree tether. Both are much longer then needed. This isn’t the time to worry about $4 in material. I toss it around the tree and loop it back trough itself loosely and let it sit around seat height. If I ever fall (god forbid) I now have a lifesaver hanging in front of my face. I can spin that rope around to my position and use it as a step. That either allows me to take pressure off my now acheing body, or step back to my ladder or climbing sticks or my stand. And if I have extra underwear I can even finish my hunt and ice my balls later. I’ve done the same with a screw in step. Use then to hang my backpack or quiver etc at swat height. Unscrew it, set it lower and get my foot on it. Same principal.On my setups bc of how I do it I have two ropes extra long. Both have a prusik knot. And my linesman’s has a “ropeman” ascender. I could actually climb all the way down the tree if need be. 

 

Its t’s really not that difficult. You can use any style you want but you need to have a plan for worst case scenario. And be honest with yourself about your actual physical ability. Bc it’s one time where being head strong instead of actually strong that will cost you your life. 

[Pathman]

Great insight! 

[Hitemnasty]

3 hours ago, njbowhntr said:

Maybe you should read my post over again. Do you see the words “prusik” anywhere in my post?  I stated using a proper ascension device, which I should add can be used a a descension device also. 

Prusik knots do not slide, but being you are putting words in my mouth I guess you know that. 

Ok sorry misunderstood, ease up hoss! Haha

[Hitemnasty]

3 hours ago, njbowhntr said:

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Hitemnasty

[supr78nova]

With season upon us, I’d thought I’d give the group my climbing harness set up.  I used to use a standard hunting harness.  My main concern with a hunting harness is falling and hanging and not being able to recover on my own.  I hunt alone and I go deep a lot.  So, it’s really up to me to get myself out of that situation.  Note:  I am not saying this is the only set up or the best.  It works for me.  It might give you some ideas if you are thinking of switching over from hunting harness to climbing. 
As you know, the big advantage of a climbing harness is that if you fall, you’re facing the tree and your leaning back a bit so there is no pressure on your legs.  You can hang pretty much forever and it’s a lot easier to get back to your sticks or a ladder if you get stuck. I tried some of those controlled descent devices to use with a hunting harness.  But, they are all bulky and I don’t want to carry all that line in with me each time. 
The big negative with climbing harness is they don’t come with lineman’s loops.  So, if you use a hang on and need to use a lineman’s belt, then you need to figure out how to add one on your own.  So, l’ll show you my solution.  I implemented this last season and it took a bit of tweaking but this is what I came up with. 
First, I selected the Vario Speed Harness from Black Diamond.  https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/144431/black-diamond-vario-speed-harness.  Its every easy to get on and off.  The one thing you should consider is if you have to piss.  This one is no problem, just unzip and go.  Some harnesses have a section that drops down in the middle and will get in the way.  You don’t want to have to take  your harness off to go. 
Second, I purchased these tie down loops: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AS5QC1C/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I double looped them around the area shown in the picture below where the arrows are.  I looped each twice and then put a zip tie.  The zip tie isn’t supporting any weight, it’s just preventing the loop from pulling back through and un-looping when I throw it in the truck. I made a lineman's belt by getting some line, creating a loop in one end, and then attaching an ascender to the other end.  https://www.rei.com/product/130302/wild-country-ropeman-2-ascender.  The ascender is not necessary...you can just use a prussic knot or similar.  However, I like the ascender because it's very easy to work with one hand.  Basically, to tighten the rope, you just pull it through the ascender.  To loosen, you need to take pressure off of the line, then lift the teeth of the ascender and then you can loosen.  But, if you have a lineman's belt you like, it will work fine with this set up.  
Finally, when I'm in the tree and all settled, I just use an old HSS rope style tree strap I have.  I tie it around the tree like a normally wood and tighten the prussic knot so it doesn't slip.  Then, I attach a double loop end rope under my shoulder to the belay loop (the big loop on my harness).  I hunt with a xbow and it never gets in the way.  I think most compound guys will find it interferes less than a standard harness as it won't get in the way when you draw back.  
I added two bungee ball loops to each side as well.  I just put climbing sticks in there to hold while I'm climbing.  
I used this about 1/2 of last season.  The advantages are the recovery, more comfort, easier to get a jacket on or off without having to take off your harness.  I don't find the extra loop to be an issue (that it goes under your shoulder to the front)...but some may not like this.  Also, there are other ways to attach lineman's loops.  See DIY sportsman.  I just found this method very easy and reliable.  Theoretically, you could just use the belay loop to attach your lineman belt, but you'll find it rubs up against your sticks and becomes hard to work with.  

Would the white extension rope with the carabiner allow the climbing harness to be used with a HSS lifeline in a ladder stand? I was thinking about switching to a climbing harness this year, but was unsure how it would work and if there would be enough slack to be able to turn around and sit down with the connection on your front side. Does the rope get in the way in front of you?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[Nomad]

If you look at that Oregon guy it looks like both feet are stuck inside the ladder rung and he is hanging by his ankles/shins.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Nomad