Fish and Game Council Meeting - July 10 Marine Fisheries Council Meeting - July 12

[NJDFW]

Fish and Game Council Meeting - July 10 Marine Fisheries Council Meeting - July 12

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[1957Buck]

1 hour ago, NJDFW said:

Fish and Game Council Meeting - July 10 Marine Fisheries Council Meeting - July 12

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Very interesting I just went through the April meeting minutes public Speakers allowed 3 Min out of the 15 Allowed while The Days is devoted to Countless others with their reports. and agendas. From what I surmise there are too many Departments and Positions. Let alone Redundant Commissions. There was only ( one ) ( 1 ) public speaker and she seemed to be a Thorn in their sides. The other thing I got was everything is a Success they do. Except for the deteriorated conditions of The Pequest Nature Center Building Unacceptable IMO.  Success being Deer Numbers Down- Freshwater fishing Trout Stamps sales down. Pheasant Future uncertain. Tracking Trout in the No kill Conservation area of the Flatbrook a Failure with them going missing. With Telemetry Tracking Usually Reserved for Larger Rivers and Migrating Fish. All and All IMO it is well run in their Minds with the public not Involved and the Bitching will continue on Hunting and Fishing in NJ as long as the Public does not get involved and are allowed to have more Than ( 3 ) Three Minutes to Make them voices heard.  It is a Disgrace to call them a Public Meeting.  The Most Contact with NJDFAG is when a Warden is out on Patrol and asked a Question and the answer is I have No Clue Try calling this Number but press 2 for English and are Menue has changed I will get you to someone who can Answer that.  Silence then disconnect.  It is Your Dollars at work Sad, It reminds me of the many Union meetings I attended as  Union Official with only a few members showing up but the Masses Doing The Bitching.  It Is Government at its best.  And one of their Concerns being Short Stripers being taken in the Newark Bay and Hudson River. What now a new Commission be formed as some others as a Pathologist with all the Appointed People to run it. $$$$$ You read the minutes to find that one.  

For such a Small State The DFAG is not so Small almost as many involved as there are Sportsman Oh almost left out a Proposed Fee to fish Certain Lakes and Body of waters beside the Licence. But That look like a No Go or is it.  

 

[Bucksnbows]

On 6/13/2018 at 11:29 AM, 1957Buck said:

Very interesting I just went through the April meeting minutes public Speakers allowed 3 Min out of the 15 Allowed while The Days is devoted to Countless others with their reports. and agendas. From what I surmise there are too many Departments and Positions. Let alone Redundant Commissions. There was only ( one ) ( 1 ) public speaker and she seemed to be a Thorn in their sides. The other thing I got was everything is a Success they do. Except for the deteriorated conditions of The Pequest Nature Center Building Unacceptable IMO.  Success being Deer Numbers Down- Freshwater fishing Trout Stamps sales down. Pheasant Future uncertain. Tracking Trout in the No kill Conservation area of the Flatbrook a Failure with them going missing. With Telemetry Tracking Usually Reserved for Larger Rivers and Migrating Fish. All and All IMO it is well run in their Minds with the public not Involved and the Bitching will continue on Hunting and Fishing in NJ as long as the Public does not get involved and are allowed to have more Than ( 3 ) Three Minutes to Make them voices heard.  It is a Disgrace to call them a Public Meeting.  The Most Contact with NJDFAG is when a Warden is out on Patrol and asked a Question and the answer is I have No Clue Try calling this Number but press 2 for English and are Menue has changed I will get you to someone who can Answer that.  Silence then disconnect.  It is Your Dollars at work Sad, It reminds me of the many Union meetings I attended as  Union Official with only a few members showing up but the Masses Doing The Bitching.  It Is Government at its best.  And one of their Concerns being Short Stripers being taken in the Newark Bay and Hudson River. What now a new Commission be formed as some others as a Pathologist with all the Appointed People to run it. $$$$$ You read the minutes to find that one.  

For such a Small State The DFAG is not so Small almost as many involved as there are Sportsman Oh almost left out a Proposed Fee to fish Certain Lakes and Body of waters beside the Licence. But That look like a No Go or is it.  

 

Your reply says it all to me.  You have obviously never attended a NJ Fish & Game Council meeting.  The reason they have to limit speakers is that ONLY non-hunters attend.  It is so very rare for them to ever have someone from the hunting/fishing/trapping community want to address the Council in person that all they get is the same old hags complaining about bear and deer hunting and all hunting, fishing and trapping each month.  If sportsmen showed with legitimate concerns or questions, they would very likely find a way to expand the public comment period.  I know, I've attended several meetings over the years and have or had several friends on the Council.   

[mazzgolf]

Quote

 

the same old hags complaining

 

The problem is - hunters/fishermen/trappers are all normal people and unlike the old hags we all have better things to do with our time  

[1957Buck]

1 minute ago, Bucksnbows said:

Your reply says it all to me.  You have obviously never attended a NJ Fish & Game Council meeting.  The reason they have to limit speakers is that ONLY non-hunters attend.     

1

Yes, I have and a few NJFS and Countless Township Council Meetings and Run More Than I Can Count as Chairman and Commissioner of The Veterans Committee and Historic Commission. all of which have Citizens Voice portions. with time limits also. When we want to ignore troublemakers there are workshop meetings By Invite of interested parties On The Topic. Not to forget That part of Citizens Voice is just that there is no back and forth or discussion just their 5  min. of fame.  Ther can be By Roberts Law be Open Public Meetings and Meetings restricted to in this case Licenced NJ Hunters - Fisherman. And as far as that meeting in April there was only one disgruntled Troublemaker.   These meetings are not well attended if at all since they are held at inopportune times during the week.  In mostly one location.  The worst part of the meeting agenda is there are no comments allowed for any passages or making a point on the subject at hand.  Want another big Reason they cover too many areas and reports making the meetings Boring almost painful to sit and listen to their rhetoric and Plans and Uncertainties. is it any wonder there is no interest for any Hunters - Fisherman to Spend a Day attend. When Minutes are published and for the most part Go unread by 90%.  People like to bitch but when the time comes to do the walk they are nowhere to be Found. Or the entire protesting and attendees are not reported in the liberal Anti Agenda Press gaining no public exposure to get others interested.                                                          If enough sportsman would show up at just one meeting and push just one agenda or point in protest like you see at many Town Meetings maybe things would change.   BUT just as Many Union - Council- State - Meetings are structured Members get discouraged and Like, in this case, do not attend only those with Vested interests show up For the average Sportsman Not. 

[Bucksnbows]

On 6/13/2018 at 11:29 AM, 1957Buck said:

 Tracking Trout in the No kill Conservation area of the Flatbrook a Failure with them going missing. With Telemetry Tracking Usually Reserved for Larger Rivers and Migrating Fish.

 

I'm sure you base that on your extensive fisheries biology knowledge and past experience.....

Rather than hitting you on each item I believe you are wrong in your post, I'll stick to something I have expertise in.  Tracking fish using telemetry is something I have done on Bonneville cutthroat trout, a species that moves up to 90 miles to spawn each year.  Those fish need to navigate a myriad of water diversions created by ranchers to water crops and hay fields.  Some of these irrigation ditches have enough flow in them to attract the trout into them instead of the trout remaining in the main river and swimming upstream to spawn.  In short time, the dissolved oxygen drops out and the temps increase and the trout die.  These irrigation ditches are often only a few feet wide.  We capture the trout and inserted PIT tags and telemetry units throughout the watershed to see which irrigation ditches/diversions were causing the most issues for the native cutthroats and then we prioritized structures from that list wherever we had willing landowners to install fish passage and keep the trout out of the ditches.  "Going missing" does give us scientific data because it tells a story.  The questions are where did they go and why?  It can be that they die in these irrigation ditches, are caught by anglers, or face predation from predators.  NJ fisheries biologists want to know what is going on in a watershed that is our most intact and that remains cold enough for native brook trout all summer long, at least in certain reaches.  When a PIT tagged fish "goes missing", that is not a "failure".  It means something killed that trout and it fills in part of the scientific puzzle.  

I could care less if you believe our fish and wildlife biologists are great or horrible at their respective jobs, but at least take time to educate yourself before you dump all over them on a public forum.  Once properly informed, please feel free to criticize.  

[Bucksnbows]

1 minute ago, mazzgolf said:

The problem is - hunters/fishermen/trappers are all normal people and unlike the old hags we all have better things to do with our time  

Agreed, but he needs to understand why the Council doesn't need to listen to the old hags calling them murderers for 15 minutes each meeting.  

[1957Buck]

1 hour ago, mazzgolf said:

The problem is - hunters/fishermen/trappers are all normal people and unlike the old hags we all have better things to do with our time  

That is My point exactly and they understand that so your interests are not met and The bitching goes on. I think someone missed your Point ( Blinders )

Edited June 15, 2018 by 1957Buck

[Bucksnbows]

12 minutes ago, 1957Buck said:

That is My point exactly and they understand that so your interests are not met and The bitching goes on.

What stops outdoorsmen/women from writing or emailing the Council or the Division staff?  You don't need to be present at a Council meeting to be heard.  And don't say "we don't have time because we work all day" while spending an hour or more on sites like this every single day.  We as a whole are far too apathetic and disorganized.  So we get exactly what we deserve in those situations.    

[1957Buck]

4 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

 

I could care less if you believe our fish and wildlife biologists are great or horrible at their respective jobs, but at least take time to educate yourself before you dump all over them on a public forum.  Once properly informed, please feel free to criticize.  

 

There you go again If you could care less you have a lot to say.    I base my Observations On Practical experience and on what Hunting and Fishing in Nj Once were Going back to 1951 and how the Politics and so-called modern science has made a Mess of Nj Outdoors.  The Failures in every department. Bad decisions wasted Money. The FU Trout I mentioned stocked in a Local lake and the assinine excuses the Biologist gave that it was just a few when  230 of them were FU. The Failures at Pequest - Pheasant Rearing -  Land management. My Education comes from the 66 years of Hunting and fishing in Nj and Seeing what other states accomplish to the over bloated Politically appointed Bureaucrats in The NJDFAG have accomplished.     As interests dwindle in Hunting and Stocked trout proves my points of those failures Even when Deer hunting was 6 days  Bucks only - Hatchery Successes. Now the introductions and Countless days of deer hunting and Stocking Mud puddles have produced Disgruntled Sportsman Complaining in every department.    I guess you could say my Education came from on The job training with no personal agenda or anything to gain or lose. Did I mention the lack of interested Sportsman attending the meetings with at times ZERO? For me to Dump as you put it The Price of a license gives that right and remember it is only My Opinions. Along with the other 1000s  who don't attend any meetings and just want results when the Fish and hunt. I too would defend them if I had a vested interest $$$   I thought Public forums were to express and debate opinions not bash someone for their opinion. Right or wrong. So as you say you could care less. Really you do care  

[1957Buck]

28 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

What stops outdoorsmen/women from writing or emailing the Council or the Division staff?      

 

Ever Hear of Deaf Ears I have sent emails and phone calls to what avail. Are you kidding me?     Case in Point New 12 Nj is having an Ask Gov. Murphy event in Asbury Park I think today   And asked for the Public to send in their questions ahead of time.     That should get some serious Answers on Gun Controls Taxes Or will they fall on Deaf Ears. Like the OP said he has better things to do along with his time along with the Silent Majority on this Forum. Or those meeting would be Full.  I have to go now Have some important chores like filling some Bird Baths and Weeding. 

[1957Buck]

46 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

  We as a whole are far too apathetic and disorganized.  So we get exactly what we deserve in those situations.    

 

Not So My Points and Opinions are seen and get reactions from not only members but NJDFAG who monitor this site but don't respond for whatever reason, But For you. An Interested Party$$

[Bucksnbows]

29 minutes ago, 1957Buck said:

My Education comes from the 66 years of Hunting and fishing in Nj and Seeing what other states accomplish to the over bloated Politically appointed Bureaucrats in The NJDFAG have accomplished.     

Well, it certainly didn't come from a good public education. 

[Bucksnbows]

9 minutes ago, 1957Buck said:

Not So My Points and Opinions are seen and get reactions from not only members but NJDFAG who monitor this site but don't respond for whatever reason, But For you. An Interested Party$$

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Interested Party$$"? 

[1957Buck]

5 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

Well, it certainly didn't come from a good public education. 

 Mine. Now that you went South It is best to just Ignore You. as the Many PMs, I have been getting advise me. (Done ) Wow protected Not Allowed WTF  Guess I will have to Use Self-restraint.  

Edited June 15, 2018 by 1957Buck