Very nice jersey brown trout

[Dave B.]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:06 PM, LPJR said:

Well done in the Flatbrook Dave, especially with the fly rod 

Thanks, but they pale in comparison to the beautiful browns that Hemlock and others post here. Just wanted to show there are still a few browns wandering around in the Flatbrook, it's just a matter of pure unadulterated luck to encounter them.

[hemlock]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:40 PM, Dave B. said:

Here's a couple from the Flatbrook. The first one was two weeks ago and went 14.5", the second was caught yesterday (Sat) in the rain and measured 17 inches. Both were holdovers from private stockings during the past several years and both found new homes in the frying pan.

 

 

 

 

Nice browns Dave!  That's really cool you caught two holdovers. Awesome!

[cappy]

They look like Musky Hatchery Trout.  My question is, if holdovers, from how long ago.  I don't know of any private stretches or clubs on the Flatbrook.  The stretch thru the camp ground can be accessed by the public.  Who and where would do a private stocking of the Flatbrook, and why?

Nice fish BTW.  I'm a C&R guy, sad to see them land in the frying pan. 

[Mink]

On 5/18/2018 at 9:57 PM, Bucksnbows said:

If natural reproduction was the goal, it is best to strip eggs and milt from wild fish, native or non-native.  Our trout are raised to spawn in the fall so they can be ready to catch by spring.  A wild rainbow, for example, is an early spring spawner when not light manipulated into spawning in the fall and/or selectively bred because of their early spawning abilities.  Those things don't necessarily make for a hardy fish that will holdover and spawn.  I believe it is fewer than 20% of stocked trout into either Trout Maintenance or Trout Production waters will holdover through their first summer.  That's not a lot.  A year later, it's only a very small fraction of the initial stocking.

That is why whenever possible, wild fish are the way to go.  But you need habitat and food.  Few of our streams can sustain large wild trout populations.  It is mostly our smaller streams that can do so, and most of them on private property or farther from the beaten path (less angling pressure).  Our best wild trout stream is or will be the upper 9.75 miles of the South Branch now that the river from Budd Lake down to just upstream of the Schooley Mountain Road bridge in Long Valley (Washington Twp., Morris) is no longer stocked and is a listed WTS.  It is loaded with wild browns and brookies, but it now has special regulations which will only improve that fishery in a few short years.  We just need a decent spawning year as the last 4 or 5 straight have sucked.  We just haven't had decent flows to get wild fish up into their better spawning habitat in late fall nor have we had good flows in summer to spread out the young of the year (YOY) fish which allows for greatly increased predation of the YOY by the larger fish in the river.  

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but good discussion.  

Would the trout released from the Musky Hatchery have a better chance to reproduce ?

[Dave B.]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:46 AM, cappy said:

They look like Musky Hatchery Trout.  My question is, if holdovers, from how long ago.  I don't know of any private stretches or clubs on the Flatbrook.  The stretch thru the camp ground can be accessed by the public.  Who and where would do a private stocking of the Flatbrook, and why?

Nice fish BTW.  I'm a C&R guy, sad to see them land in the frying pan. 

The second, larger one is a Musky fish. The smaller one is from a different hatchery in Pa.

There is, or at least was, 1 club that stocked fish every year in the lower Flatbrook. The others come from a very small group of un-affiliated anglers who each contribute a few dollars and their own time each year to stock about 100 or so 11-12 inch fish into a section of the Flatbrook. These fish are usually a mix of browns, tigers, and a few goldens for the occasional angler who cares to try for one, and of course to give the eagles and ospreys some easy pickings.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by Dave B.

[cappy]

6 hours ago, Dave B. said:

The second, larger one is a Musky fish. The smaller one is from a different hatchery in Pa.

There is, or at least was, 1 club that stocked fish every year in the lower Flatbrook. The others come from a very small group of un-affiliated anglers who each contribute a few dollars and their own time each year to stock about 100 or so 11-12 inch fish into a section of the Flatbrook. These fish are usually a mix of browns, tigers, and a few goldens for the occasional angler who cares to try for one, and of course to give the eagles and ospreys some easy pickings.  

Thanks Dave did not know that.  I fish the FB often but i'm always up in the C&R section.  Yes there is a lot of predation on the FB from both air and land.

[Bucksnbows]

There are 2 private clubs on the Flatbrook, FYI. Both stock.


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[cappy]

1 hour ago, Bucksnbows said:

There are 2 private clubs on the Flatbrook, FYI. Both stock.


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That is interesting.  What section(s)? 

I thought the only private section was thru the campground but they allow fishing to all.

[Bucksnbows]

5 hours ago, cappy said:

That is interesting.  What section(s)? 

I thought the only private section was thru the campground but they allow fishing to all.

cappy, I've never fished the club waters but know several guys in them.  Lower river is all I know.  Most of the land is federal and some state, but there remain a few private in-holdings still.  

[Bucksnbows]

18 hours ago, Mink said:

Would the trout released from the Musky Hatchery have a better chance to reproduce ?

Their Kamloops rainbows yes, but their browns probably not.  His browns are of unknown origin meaning they likely date back to whatever his hatchery's original brown trout stock came from over 100 years ago.  Long term hatchery reared fish lose so much of their original wildness in the hatchery setting that few trout, at least, reproduce.  I don't see wild browns that look like Musky Trout Hatchery browns as we do with juvenile and adult Kamloops rainbows where they are sometimes spawning after stocking.  But that strain of rainbow is closer to wild stock than the McCloud River strain that so many hatcheries are still rearing to this day.  

Anyone wanting to learn more about trout stocking and why we are where we are today with not only trout, but all sorts of other critters and plants should read this book:

https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300140880/entirely-synthetic-fish

 It is the best source on the topic of why non-native fish are EVERYWHERE and why birds like starlings and European sparrows were released here in the US where they became non-native invasive nuisances.  In the case of the birds, one man made it his mission to import every bird that William Shakespeare ever wrote about to his newfound country of America.  It talks about the early federal efforts to introduce rainbow trout from the McCloud River in California and later brown trout from Germany and Scotland as well as how Easterners traveling west introduced non-native brook trout to the Rockies and elsewhere.  And more importantly, why man did all of that and why we continue to this day even though we know better.      

[Mink]

Thank You Sir! I'll be sure to get a copy of that read.

[Dave B.]

14 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

There are 2 private clubs on the Flatbrook, FYI. Both stock.


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Thanks for the update! I knew there had been 2 at one time but I haven't kept up with that info for some time now. The group on Handler's farm I was pretty sure were still stocking, didn't know for sure about Overlook.

 Regarding Musky's Kamloops, I agree wholeheartedly with your statements concerning their ability to reproduce in the wild. Absolutely great fighting fish as well! A real pleasure to play!

Edited May 25, 2018 by Dave B.

[hemlock]

11 hours ago, Dave B. said:

Thanks for the update! I knew there had been 2 at one time but I haven't kept up with that info for some time now. The group on Handler's farm I was pretty sure were still stocking, didn't know for sure about Overlook.

 Regarding Musky's Kamloops, I agree wholeheartedly with your statements concerning their ability to reproduce in the wild. Absolutely great fighting fish as well! A real pleasure to play!

The Kamloops are awesome fighters. Just amazing drag screaming and acrobatic fight. Even at a big size they don't lose their fast runs and jumping ability. I love catching them. My brother in law belongs to a small club in NY and they stock the Kamloops in the big pool behind their club house 300 every year. And once a year I get to fish that pool and stream as a guest. Talk about fun. All the guys in the club mostly only hunt. So next to nobody walks the stream they just sit on the pool and drink with a line out. So the stream is excellent to hike there's a trout in every run and pocket. 

[hemlock]

Here is a beautiful NY brown my buddy caught over the weekend. And it was his best in a few years beautiful fish.

Edited May 26, 2018 by hemlock

[3Blade]

Wow, that is a nice one!