Barbless hooks at Flatbrook and KLG

[230jhp]

16 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

I have seen COs go through fly vests and tackle boxes many times. They absolutely have the right. Same with your ammo such as if you are waterfowl hunting and aren’t allowed any lead shot on you.


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I have never seen that, but if they do they must be looking for natural bait

[Bucksnbows]

On 3/24/2018 at 8:58 PM, cappy said:

I understand it as written to apply solely to "lures" not flies.   It does not state lures and flies.  It does state that only lures and flies can be used in the C&R areas.  To me the use of "and" means they are not the same.   So is a lure a fly, or a fly a lure.

 

"Lures used when trout fishing in the state’s two designated Catch and Release Only areas may have no more than three hook points, all of which must be barbless".

It applies to both lures and flies.  A fly is a type of lure when you boil it all down, just presented differently with a fly rod than with a spin or casting rod.   

[cappy]

19 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

It applies to both lures and flies.  A fly is a type of lure when you boil it all down, just presented differently with a fly rod than with a spin or casting rod.   

Agree a fly can be considered a type of lure.  That being said the way the regulation is written they are not, and it's all in how something is worded.  The only place a fly is referenced is to state only lures and flies can be used in the C&R tracts.  Now if it stated lures and flies used when trout fishing I would agree; easily contested and won.

[1957Buck]

2 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

It applies to both lures and flies.  A fly is a type of lure when you boil it all down, just presented differently with a fly rod than with a spin or casting rod.   

In all due respect, a fly is a fly a lure is a lure by legal definition Yes they Lure Fish or Attract if that is your point NJ or any other state I have fished Fly Only is just that. Once again Alaska has Fly Fishing Only NO Lures in the majority of Rivers. The One exception is for King Salmon where Lures and Flies are allowed.  They Methods for Fly Fishing Varies depending on the Species Trout has its own definition. Salmon Reds-Silvers - their own. For Trout, a Bead Reg is considered acceptable for a Fly or any traditional ones. For the Salmon, a Long Hook Streamer fly is the go-to But for the Red ( Sockeye ) that does not feed after entering the fresh waters, A learned technic is Used to Drag the Fly through the Mouth and Hook it.  Better known as The Kenia Flip no Foul hooking. An acceptable Fly is the Bead rig as Shown for Trout Dollys Grays. even Silvers will hit it.  A # 8 hook is tied at the end some 4 in above is a bead some use a toothpick to hold in place others a knot above and below add a Shoot about 6-8 above that there is a Legal distance for each.    My point a fly has many Definitions but not as a Lure.   I read and Read the 2018 Freshwater Regs and find it vague, to say the least.          Since there is an NJDFAG Member on this Site maybe he will step up and Explain.    At least I did not have the Press #1 for English 

[Bucksnbows]

13 hours ago, 1957Buck said:

In all due respect, a fly is a fly a lure is a lure by legal definition Yes they Lure Fish or Attract if that is your point NJ or any other state I have fished Fly Only is just that. Once again Alaska has Fly Fishing Only NO Lures in the majority of Rivers.

A fly is a lure just like a spinner is a lure or a rubber worm is a lure or a deep diving plug is a lure.  It is just one type of "lure".  Citing Alaska fishing regs is completely irrelevant.  I just emailed the Chief to see what wisdom she has for those of you that might be interpreting the new regs as lures need to be barbless in certain waters but not flies.   

[Bucksnbows]

And here you go, directly from Chief of Freshwater Fisheries, Lisa Barno, just a second ago via email:

"everything tied at the end of a line that has a hook is a lure" 

 

 

[cappy]

43 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

And here you go, directly from Chief of Freshwater Fisheries, Lisa Barno, just a second ago via email:

"everything tied at the end of a line that has a hook is a lure" 

 

 

With all due respect to Lisa; the way it's written is wrong if that is their intent, and that comment is clearly her opinion.  She either needs to rewrite it, or add a definitions section.  The way it's currently written, there is a clear legal difference between a fly and a lure in the context of the regulation.

[Bucksnbows]

32 minutes ago, cappy said:

With all due respect to Lisa; the way it's written is wrong if that is their intent, and that comment is clearly her opinion.  She either needs to rewrite it, or add a definitions section.  The way it's currently written, there is a clear legal difference between a fly and a lure in the context of the regulation.

Well, it's now a published regulation, so it won't be getting rewritten.  Remember, the Digest is an interpretation of the regulations, not the regulations themselves.  If the Chief says to me "everything tied at the end if a line that has a hook is a lure", and she is in charge, that is good enough for me personally speaking.  I know the intent and always have, so I guess I'm not struggling with this.  For what it's worth, this was the first time anyone has brought this up to Lisa or the Division.... 

[cappy]

16 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

Well, it's now a published regulation, so it won't be getting rewritten.  Remember, the Digest is an interpretation of the regulations, not the regulations themselves.  If the Chief says to me "everything tied at the end if a line that has a hook is a lure", and she is in charge, that is good enough for me personally speaking.  I know the intent and always have, so I guess I'm not struggling with this.  For what it's worth, this was the first time anyone has brought this up to Lisa or the Division.... 

The Digest is what is published for the folks to live by; therefore right or wrong it is the regulations.  I have no issues pinching barbs.  I always pinch barbs except for tiny midges; I’m strictly C&R when it comes to Trout.  My issue if our government is making a regulation, then getting the wording wrong.  This regulation (intent) is good, some are not.  I’m not struggling either, they got it wrong when they put ink to paper.

[TroutandBucks]

I feel like im reading a topic from NJ fishing right now

[Uplandhunter75]

3 hours ago, cappy said:

With all due respect to Lisa; the way it's written is wrong if that is their intent, and that comment is clearly her opinion.  She either needs to rewrite it, or add a definitions section.  The way it's currently written, there is a clear legal difference between a fly and a lure in the context of the regulation.

I think what is clear is the regulation is all hooks used on those stretches need to be barbless. Your interpretation of the regulation is what seems unclear. You honestly read the reg set and determined that all spin fisherman need to be barbless and fly fisherman need not worry?

[cappy]

50 minutes ago, Uplandhunter75 said:

You honestly read the reg set and determined that all spin fisherman need to be barbless and fly fisherman need not worry?

Yes.  It's clear that as written, there is a distinction between lures and flies. 

Doesn't matter if you are spin or fly fishing, the reg doesn't reference the type of reel or rod.  I've seen people with spin gear casting flies with an indicator.  I've also seen fly anglers using plugs with treble hooks.