rockport's future - update

[Bigsquirrel]

Seems more of a risk to bring in birds from a distant farm, as far as illness/disease goes.  The fewer the farms the greater the effects of an outbreak.  Can't bring a Whitetail here from the midwest can we?

[Lunatic]

Because it hasn’t stayed “where it is”. First the reallocation did affect the past practices and the quality of the hunts, second the number of birds was reduced and will continue no matter what F&G says at the moment and third the stamp prices will indeed go up again no matter what F&G says at the moment. F&G only acts on what will bring in more revenue period. Do you actually think extended permits, buck tags, non regulation of unlimited doe permits and inclusion of xbows had anything to do with besides money? If you think for a second they’ve taken a scientific, biological or quality of hunting experience consideration towards hunting in NJ you’re sadly mistaken

 

 

I get all this but as you said it is all about  money and therefore you agree with me unless you believe the state can raise pheasants cheaper then private enterprise. If you do I have a bridge I can sell you.

All these other points you made, like: quality of hunt, reduction in numbers, bad management, even the oh no Crossbow, has nothing to do with, and its not effected by the purchase vs raise birds decision.  

How are you disagreeing with me?

[Lunatic]

Actually, when I think about it, this is probably a good thing. Why is the government in the business of raising birds anyway? Privatization is the way to go in so many other areas, why not this one? Give some private entrepreneurs the chance to outbid others and win the contract. They get business, we save money. We all know the government is rarely as efficient and cost-effective as private enterprise - competition in business is almost always a good thing.

 

 

I am dealing with sate government on daily basis and I am willing to bet, if the state takes competitive bids to supply pheasants the price will be a fraction of what it cost them to raise them. I am not sure they will bid on this for this upcoming year, but eventually you will have farms  competing to supply.

[MGHunter66]

I get all this but as you said it is all about money and therefore you agree with me unless you believe the state can raise pheasants cheaper then private enterprise. If you do I have a bridge I can sell you.

All these other points you made, like: quality of hunt, reduction in numbers, bad management, even the oh no Crossbow, has nothing to do with, and its not effected by the purchase vs raise birds decision.

How are you disagreeing with me?

You said the goal of keeping it “where it is” and this is my response to that...

Because it hasn’t stayed “where it is”. First the reallocation did affect the past practices and the quality of the hunts, second the number of birds was reduced and will continue no matter what F&G says at the moment and third the stamp prices will indeed go up again no matter what F&G says at the moment.

[Bonefreak]

They might as well just lease out or sell the whole facility up there....but then again....its state government and that would make too much sense.  I remember a major cost of the program was feed.....and you would figure with all the farmland the Division has, they would have grown their own feed, or at the very least, get a good price from farmers that use our WMA fields....but again....makes too much sense to run the program effectively and efficiently.  Bring on the privatization of the program....will last a few yrs and the program will be phased out.

[Lunatic]

You said the goal of keeping it “where it is” and this is my response to that...

Because it hasn’t stayed “where it is”. First the reallocation did affect the past practices and the quality of the hunts, second the number of birds was reduced and will continue no matter what F&G says at the moment and third the stamp prices will indeed go up again no matter what F&G says at the moment.

 

Regardless how you name it, be it keep the price of the stamp where it is or just keep the cost down, this move has only one goal and that is to spend less money to provide us with pheasants. There is no way for us to lose since higher cost will only cost us more.

I am not sure what you mean by "the relocation" but it sounds like you are telling me with state supplied birds the quality of hunt went down. If so, why would you want them to keep on supplying? Why was the number of birds reduced? To save money so why not go somewhere where you can get them cheaper for years to come?

[Bucksnbows]

They might as well just lease out or sell the whole facility up there....but then again....its state government and that would make too much sense.  I remember a major cost of the program was feed.....and you would figure with all the farmland the Division has, they would have grown their own feed, or at the very least, get a good price from farmers that use our WMA fields....but again....makes too much sense to run the program effectively and efficiently.  Bring on the privatization of the program....will last a few yrs and the program will be phased out.

 

They can't sell it because it is WMA land and leasing won't make sense because they likely can't do much building at that site to comply with new fed regs.  Best to take down the pens and support structures, restore the land, and let hunters and anglers use it like they do all the other WMAs.  As far as phasing out the program, that is not in the cards, but everything changes in time.  It's always been very hard for me to get overly excited about catching stocked fish or shooting stocked birds.  Give me habitat purchases, restoration and enhancement for our wild birds like grouse and woodcock as well as critters like rabbits and you'll get me excited.  That is where our priorities should lie.  

[1957Buck]

As far as outside Birds NJ has many Pheasant Farms that can expand no need to import I once posted a list of all The Farms and Preserves that can do it.

As far as the State doing anything Cheaper than the Private Sector where Favortisem Nepotism. Ineptness. And if you think they can I have a bridge under construction in Keyport for Years since Sandy  I will sell you.   Even The Empire State Building only took 1 Year to build. 

No matter How or what the State does with outside Breeders they will remain as the Middle Man and Cashier. 

And Supply and Demand will Raise the costs, not Competition.  

Not Shooting from the hip It is from experience with 60 years of Hunting Nj to see Failures after failures Closings after Closing Gimmicks to increase the Treasury.     

I even posted a pc from PA on why Pheasants cannot be mass produced like Chickens. 

[MGHunter66]

Regardless how you name it, be it keep the price of the stamp where it is or just keep the cost down, this move has only one goal and that is to spend less money to provide us with pheasants. There is no way for us to lose since higher cost will only cost us more.

I am not sure what you mean by "the relocation" but it sounds like you are telling me with state supplied birds the quality of hunt went down. If so, why would you want them to keep on supplying? Why was the number of birds reduced? To save money so why not go somewhere where you can get them cheaper for years to come?

Respectfully you are incorrect, whenever the state outsources anything our costs never go down or even stay the same. If they have extra funds from outsourcing they use that money for other pet projects and once costs rise which they will they look for more money since they’ve already reallocated previous savings. As for the “reallocation” you need to read about it to understand what it is because your interpetation and response is far from accurate in context.

[Bucksnbows]

For all those focused only on the financial aspect of Division decisions - be it pheasants or other - ask yourself when the last price increase was to your license/stamp fees?  Now ask yourself what else you buy in your life that has stayed static in price for as long as our hunting and fishing fees?  No, I don't like the money grabbing $28 deer permits any more than anyone else, but look even at how long ago that took place without change to this day.   Sure, fees will go up in time just like everything does, but there is currently no proposal being offered again this year to change our hunting, trapping or fishing fees.      

[Lunatic]

Respectfully you are incorrect, whenever the state outsources anything our costs never go down or even stay the same. If they have extra funds from outsourcing they use that money for other pet projects and once costs rise which they will they look for more money since they’ve already reallocated previous savings. As for the “reallocation” you need to read about it to understand what it is because your interpetation and response is far from accurate in context.

 

I couldn't agree more. We live in a state with pigs in the driver seat and they will milk anything they can get there hands on. But think about it this way, does lowering the cost make sense or not. Even with pigs in charge lower costs may at least delay increases because when the pigs see higher costs they will instantly raise your prices. So the question is, even in our situation with politicians poised to take every penny they can put their hands on, does it make sense top reduce cost. I say absolutely!

[Lunatic]

As far as outside Birds NJ has many Pheasant Farms that can expand no need to import I once posted a list of all The Farms and Preserves that can do it.

As far as the State doing anything Cheaper than the Private Sector where Favortisem Nepotism. Ineptness. And if you think they can I have a bridge under construction in Keyport for Years since Sandy  I will sell you.   Even The Empire State Building only took 1 Year to build. 

No matter How or what the State does with outside Breeders they will remain as the Middle Man and Cashier. 

And Supply and Demand will Raise the costs, not Competition.  

Not Shooting from the hip It is from experience with 60 years of Hunting Nj to see Failures after failures Closings after Closing Gimmicks to increase the Treasury.     

I even posted a pc from PA on why Pheasants cannot be mass produced like Chickens. 

 

You keep repeating the bridge in Keyport, but wen I asked you what do know about the project to make this type of claim you had nothing to say. SO again what is going on in Keyport? 

 

The sate could never produce anything cheaper than private sector could. If you bid it, and anything over 10K must go for a bid, the cost will be significantly low.

[MGHunter66]

I couldn't agree more. We live in a state with pigs in the driver seat and they will milk anything they can get there hands on. But think about it this way, does lowering the cost make sense or not. Even with pigs in charge lower costs may at least delay increases because when the pigs see higher costs they will instantly raise your prices. So the question is, even in our situation with politicians poised to take every penny they can put their hands on, does it make sense top reduce cost. I say absolutely!

Ofcourse it makes sense to reduce costs, no argument there. But the state nor F&G in any way will ever strive for it. I know bucksnbows is all for this however i think an underlying factor there is he wants the workers focused on the fish hatchery for obvious reasons Edited February 26, 2018 by maximus66

[Lunatic]

Ofcourse it makes sense to reduce costs, no argument there. But the state nor F&G in any way will ever strive for it. I know bucksnbows is all for this however i think an underlying factor there is he wants the workers focused on the fish hatchery for obvious reasons

 

OK

[1957Buck]

For all those focused only on the financial aspect of Division decisions - be it pheasants or other - ask yourself when the last price increase was to your license/stamp fees?  Now ask yourself what else you buy in your life that has stayed static in price    

 

I all total Due Respect How many Add-ons over the years to add to the Treasury.How many areas have the Quality Suffered?  Like a Failing Show, the mission is to Sell More Tickets Not Raise the Price.

The old adage what can a Dollar Buy today that it could Years ago. Is always used as an excuse for THe Financial Straights of Managment. 

 

Only Time will tell 2018 stocking 2019 stocking. 

 

  Years ago it cost $5. to fish on a Head Boat for all the fish you wanted Today it is $65. + Expenses for 4 Flounder a Few Fluke. The Boats still Sail But NOT With ME.    So raise Licences People will still hunt But NOT with ME.  Who Quit Hunting long ago and if The Freshwater LIC and Stamp was not Free for me That too I would Quit. Thank God I can still Fish from the Beaches and Shorelines Free and free of Any licenses for the Salt Water.