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JHbowhunter

ANNUAL shot selection/placement/anatomy thread

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I believe when the facing leg goes forward, the scapula actually slides down to protect vitals.  I prefer facing leg straight.

 

The way that the humerus is connected between the scapula and the radius it actually does the exact opposite.  As the leg goes forward the humerus pushes the scapula up not down. 

 

deer anatomy 1.jpg

 

deer anatomy 2.jpeg

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I once shot a doe, when she was total stretched out with front facing leg touching ground and as far forward as she could stretch it, while bending to lick her tail on the opposite side...  Well I 'assumed" never a better time to shoot and where I thought was all lung, the scapula clearly shifted down and I hit it. Luckily it was the thinner part of scapula and was able to find her although it wasn't easy.

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The way that the humerus is connected between the scapula and the radius it actually does the exact opposite.  As the leg goes forward the humerus pushes the scapula up not down. 

 

attachicon.gifdeer anatomy 1.jpg

 

attachicon.gifdeer anatomy 2.jpeg

I don't know. We have butchered a lot of deer. Every time I move the leg forward, the scapula rotates down in the back as the front moves up and forward. I have done this several times to see how it moves so I know when it's best to shoot.

 

As the humerus moves forward (skinny red arrow), the joint with the scapula moves forward (big, fat red arrow), and up, while the rear of the blade moves down (yellow arrow), covering more of the lungs. That's what I've seen anyhow.

scapula.jpg

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Ghost makes a good point to try and watch where the deer runs off to, I do the same, and try to pick out a tree/bush that the deer passed, so if there is no good blood near the impact site, there should be some good blood pumping out at a further distance.  It would probably be a good idea to, after settling down after the excitement of the shot, to break out the smart phone and take a picture of that tree/bush location that you pinpointed where the deer left the area.  You can zoom in on the pic and maybe even edit/draw on the pic where deer ran by, this way when you get down to that location, the pic may help you find the exact location the deer ran by, because sometimes after climbing down from tree or walking to that location, it always appears quite different from where you were when you first shot.

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I don't know. We have butchered a lot of deer. Every time I move the leg forward, the scapula rotates down in the back as the front moves up and forward. I have done this several times to see how it moves so I know when it's best to shoot.

 

As the humerus moves forward (skinny red arrow), the joint with the scapula moves forward (big, fat red arrow), and up, while the rear of the blade moves down (yellow arrow), covering more of the lungs. That's what I've seen anyhow.

 

That's been my experience as well... HOWEVER - you and Rusty may be both "right". In the picture Rusty posted with leg somewhat forward, he's holding leg up and bent (off the ground).   However - with that same leg forward and on the ground, that is when scapula comes down to cover lungs...(IMHO)

Edited by JHbowhunter

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As the humerus moves forward (skinny red arrow), the joint with the scapula moves forward (big, fat red arrow), and up, while the rear of the blade moves down (yellow arrow), covering more of the lungs. That's what I've seen anyhow.

 

The humerus does not slide forward as you are indicating.  The leg moves forward by rotating the shoulder blade, when this occurs the humerus rotates from a horizontal position to vertical.  

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The humerus does not slide forward as you are indicating.  

IT DOES WHEN I DO IT, which is why the blade moves down. Of course, me forcing a deer leg forward is probably not how it naturally moves, as I've just learned.  :up:

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 In the picture Rusty posted with leg somewhat forward, he's holding leg up and bent (off the ground).   

 

Here's a better one.

 

anatomy 3.jpg

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Rusty - the shot I was referring to which shocked me when scapula was down, the facing front leg was extreme forward and on ground, the opposite front leg was extreme back. The doe was bending around licking her tail...  Just sharing- the shot hit exactly where I aimed, never thought that would happened.  The picture you just posted - I would not hesitate to aim it right into the crease...

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I don't know. We have butchered a lot of deer. Every time I move the leg forward, the scapula rotates down in the back as the front moves up and forward. I have done this several times to see how it moves so I know when it's best to shoot.

 

As the humerus moves forward (skinny red arrow), the joint with the scapula moves forward (big, fat red arrow), and up, while the rear of the blade moves down (yellow arrow), covering more of the lungs. That's what I've seen anyhow.

I've always noticed the same.. but I was taught to wait for the leg to step fwd for best shot offering.

 

When skinning I do play with the legs to see what goes on anatomically to get a better understanding of where to aim, etc.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Rusty - the shot I was referring to which shocked me when scapula was down, the facing front leg was extreme forward and on ground, the opposite front leg was extreme back. The doe was bending around licking her tail...  

 

And you couldn't wait until she was done doing whatever she was doing?  Some people have no respect, poor deer.   :shakehead:

 

deer yoga.png

 

 

Edited by Rusty
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And you couldn't wait until she was done doing whatever she was doing?  Some people have no respect, poor deer.   :shakehead:

 

attachicon.gifdeer yoga.png

It seemed like a great idea at the time... Element of surprise...

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22 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

Bump

:up: :up:

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Thanks, Jack! :up:

Always good to see a visual! Second best experience we've had was at a deer farm in Upstate New York. We actually got to put our hands on a living deer and felt all the bones and how they move as the deer moves! Was worth more than we will ever know!

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I would love to see this thread go to the "next level" and really delve deeper into front "facing leg" orientation.   When  front "facing YOU" leg is extending forward, what, if anything is blocking vitals...  humerus? Scapula?  What bones are interfering if facing leg is extended backwards?      I try not to overthink and just shoot if the angle is right, but really factoring in facing leg orientation should be considered.   I have always thought that when front leg is forward, scapula slides down to block much of lung and heart.   But - is it actually the opposite and it is the humerus (much narrower but tough obstacle) in the way?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, JHbowhunter said:

I would love to see this thread go to the "next level" and really delve deeper into front "facing leg" orientation.   

This shows it pretty good.  

When the leg is forward you have the largest unobstructed shot at the vitals.  

 

 

Edited by Rusty

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funny video but cool, the music is catchy.  I believe moderate leg forward, you are correct, it's probably best opening available.  I do think extreme facing leg forward, does pull that scapula down to block mid to upper lung. If you watch that video closely you will see when the leg is extended during the walking, it does "start" to slide down but change direction as leg moves back.  So - if a deer is standing, feeding, relaxed and has the leg much further forward than this video is showing, I do firmly believe that the scapula is sliding down further than that video is showing.    One of us may have to do an autopsy this year and do a video to show this. OR  - we could trust DV1's analysis because he has already done it and confirmed what I am saying...

So to me - moderate leg forward, or straight down, or moderately back - take the shot it's a great shot if deer is broadside or very slight angle. 

EXTREME LEG FORWARD - might want to hold off, unless deer is quartering away at a decent angle than it's irrelevant, you are aiming for last rib and exiting armpit area (your goal). 

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