NJ driver license and the TSA

[CJ3a]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/12/tsa-may-soon-stop-accepting-drivers-licenses-from-nine-states/

Fun times.

[smoking gun]

I was just talking about this topic yesterday to a relative it's a joke the whole country is a joke.how bout not letting and supporting jihads into the country and closing borders that actually works.you have homeland security background checks now whether capt license twice cards cdl and hazmat endorsements now.

[smoking gun]

The government has created barriers and made things difficult for law abiding citizens period George Washington bridge is a prime example what a joke we are under threat but I've been sitting in one spot for 3 hours on a bridge hahahahaha what a joke.ita a conspiracy to make more money for their silver lined pockets at our expense and they want to bring the refuges here hahahahaha

Edited December 29, 2015 by smoking gun

[BowhunterNJ]

 

Real ID also requires states to share their databases of driver information with other states. The information-sharing provisions are a big reason why some privacy groups opposed the law, saying it would effectively be the equivalent of a national identification card.

 

Why is a national identification card a bad idea?

[Haskell_Hunter]

Why is a national identification card a bad idea?

 

 

Because you have to register to have one.  Then it can become a functional requirement to do anything.  Kiss your rights goodbye.

 

It's one giant "this is me" browser cookie you can't delete, so to speak.

[jerseyhunter]

Sounds good to me but, it's almost the same as a gun registry, govt. with to much control. But this would be for all patriots and a good thing. Those who oppose I would say are not on our side of the fence and should be scrutinized.

[BowhunterNJ]

Right, but we have to register to get a driver's license.  So don't we have that same non-erasable cookie here in NJ and every other state anyway.

What would change for you and I with a "national" id?

[Axiom]

hazmat endorsements

 

 

 

 Hey man, Stay out of Michigan if ur haul'n hazmat.. Make a mistake there like miss a turn and you'll be charged with a felony...

[Haskell_Hunter]

Right, but we have to register to get a driver's license.  So don't we have that same non-erasable cookie here in NJ and every other state anyway.

What would change for you and I with a "national" id?

 

 

It becomes a primary key.  Now everything you say can be tracked by our gov't.

 

You'll need a gov't ID for:

 

• Cell phone purchases
• Computer purchases
• Vehicle purchases
• Firearm purchases
• All air travel
• etc.

 

Your gov't ID become the serial number attached to everything you do, and it will be stored in a safe government computer somewhere.  Oh, and they'll protect your privacy.  Really, they will.

[smoking gun]

That's the whole point if ypu owe back taxes or are contempt of court they know who you are thru ssn driver lic.etc.the whole thing is just one more step to make money and to take away private citizen rights

[BowhunterNJ]

It becomes a primary key.  Now everything you say can be tracked by our gov't.

 

You'll need a gov't ID for:

 

• Cell phone purchases
• Computer purchases
• Vehicle purchases
• Firearm purchases
• All air travel
• etc.

 

Your gov't ID become the serial number attached to everything you do, and it will be stored in a safe government computer somewhere.  Oh, and they'll protect your privacy.  Really, they will.

 

I do get it...but I think a few things would interfere with what the gov *could* do versus what will actually happen.

We already need our DL to purchase guns and ammo, and go through background checks.  Technically I'm sure they already have our purchased guns recorded/retained somewhere for use.

Air travel requires a DL or passport to even get through TSA...so implicitly it's required.

 

I'm not leary of the primary key, I think it could be very useful for eliminating a ton of red tape in the middle that is unnecessary and/or duplicate.

But I can see on the extreme side of it where you need "papers" to do anything and face arrest if you don't have it.

Ultimately, the government is currently insanely inefficient and as a result extremely wasteful (costing us taxpayers).

Any improvements to that efficiency are welcome, but obviously without "rights infringement".

I'm not against a "more reliable" third party housing the information.

 

I also think goods and services companies would definitely strong arm politicians if their sales could potentially be impacted by such "ID requirements" for purchase.

Gun at least has safety tied to it.

Vehicles...well you need a DL for that already, and you require insurance and registration.  So they already have your info for that.

Airlines...seems more about safety and requiring people to have an "official" and "verified" ID seems like a good idea.

Cell phones and computers...seems a bit ludicrous to need an id to buy one.  If it reaches the level where you need an ID to buy a coffee...it's really gotten out of hand.

[BowhunterNJ]

That's the whole point if ypu owe back taxes or are contempt of court they know who you are thru ssn driver lic.etc.the whole thing is just one more step to make money and to take away private citizen rights

 

That's why I'm saying get rid of all that intermediate, proprietary crap.  Make life easy and have one, single, universal ID that is applicable for all requirements.  Make it scan-capable so you can authorize a given activity at any point in time instantly.  Hell you could even do biometric authentication of someone FIRST to verify they are who they say they are.  Then go to authorization of whatever activity they are doing.

 

All of this BS with guns for example...having to wait for an FID (pay for it, get fingerprinted [again], get a background check [again]), then wait for handgun permits (pay for it [again]), then wait for a background check [again] at the time of purchase.  Total waste and inefficient.  Here's my universal ID, scan it.  I am who I am, I am authorized to purchase a gun, run a current and comprehensive background check...OK good to go.  Sale complete.

 

The reality is, background checks are needed for some activities and making it as fast (convenient for the one checking and the one being checked) and effective (i.e. comprehensive and imperative for national security) are a good thing IMO...but only if it doesn't infringe on rights.  I'm not looking for permission to buy a gun or for you to constrain my right...but if you need to get an OK on me not being a terrorist or under current mental duress, OK...I get that.  Likewise, if I feel like my life is in impending danger and I want to arm myself...don't stop me from doing so unless you have some concrete reason that compromises the security of myself or others (beyond the fact that I'm looking to defend myself and someone might wind up getting hurt because of that).

 

The problem with all of it is that so much of what is allowed and what is not is very subjective and localized.  Laws differ from state to state significantly, and even from city to city, town to town.  We are all the same "citizens", why is there such variance and why is it federally accepted?  How is it not an infringement on rights?  Either some states are too liberal with their lack of restrictions or some states are too restrictive with their far reaching laws.  I could never understand that aspect.

[Bucksnbows]

Big Brother is not something in the future but rather it is here today and has been for some time.  It's not the information being collected, but how they may or may not use it that is our worry now.  Remember Social Security numbers being established by our government for the first time?  They were to be used strictly to obtain SS benefits.  Try getting a driver's license or a passport or anything else these days without your SS # and you'll quickly realize that was yet another lie.  

[Haskell_Hunter]

Couple of things:

 

1. The larger and more centralized an organization becomes, more inefficient it is.  This is a fact and something that's well-documented in business and organizational development texts.  The reason we can't get anything done in NJ and with the Feds is because they are so big they've become incredibly inefficient.  Add in layers of bureaucracy and the fact that the government now does things it was never intended to do.  It's a giant steaming turd of inefficiency and broad overreach.
2. If you think the government will protect your data, I have a bridge to sell you.
3. Freedom is autonomy.  A national human registry goes entirely against this.

Also, a driver's license is not a requirement for anything.  It is "a state government issued picture ID" that shows you've passed a basic test and paid a fee.  But you're not required to ever have one at any time in your life.

 

Vehicle registration is only required to drive on public roads.  It is a usage tax.  You can buy a car without a driver's license and without registering it, and drive it on personal property to your heart's content.  You can even rip out the clean air system and do the same.  These things are requirements to use public roads, not to own or buy the car.

 

I don't use Google as a search engine and I don't use Facebook.  I actually block them at the border of my network.  Not because I am paranoid, I just don't like snooping.  My business is my business and if I want to make it yours, I will.  I have that option.  I do not like the fact that Google and Facebook turn me into a product, so as a consumer I go elsewhere.

 

Any government has no right to categorize me and/or assign me a serial number.  Yes, I have a few of them, but I have as few as possible (yes, SSN, driver's license, FID, passport, etc.).

 

And, yes, I don't trust our government.  They've never demonstrated any ability to be trusted by me.

[smoking gun]

Couple of things:

 

 

• The larger and more centralized an organization becomes, more inefficient it is.  This is a fact and something that's well-documented in business and organizational development texts.  The reason we can't get anything done in NJ and with the Feds is because they are so big they've become incredibly inefficient.  Add in layers of bureaucracy and the fact that the government now does things it was never intended to do.  It's a giant steaming turd of inefficiency and broad overreach.
• If you think the government will protect your data, I have a bridge to sell you.
• Freedom is autonomy.  A national human registry goes entirely against this.

Also, a driver's license is not a requirement for anything.  It is "a state government issued picture ID" that shows you've passed a basic test and paid a fee.  But you're not required to ever have one at any time in your life.

 

Vehicle registration is only required to drive on public roads.  It is a usage tax.  You can buy a car without a driver's license and without registering it, and drive it on personal property to your heart's content.  You can even rip out the clean air system and do the same.  These things are requirements to use public roads, not to own or buy the car.

 

I don't use Google as a search engine and I don't use Facebook.  I actually block them at the border of my network.  Not because I am paranoid, I just don't like snooping.  My business is my business and if I want to make it yours, I will.  I have that option.  I do not like the fact that Google and Facebook turn me into a product, so as a consumer I go elsewhere.

 

Any government has no right to categorize me and/or assign me a serial number.  Yes, I have a few of them, but I have as few as possible (yes, SSN, driver's license, FID, passport, etc.).

 

And, yes, I don't trust our government.  They've never demonstrated any ability to be trusted by me.

couldn't have said it any better.anyone put in faith in this government is nuts haskell you hit the nail dead center in the head.no matter how much documentation anyone has its not gonna stop the bad from doing bad we already know this thru the dumb gun laws we have it doesn't deter or stop the criminals this tsa garbage doesn't stop terrorist either it just restricts the goos people more.hey I got a idea how bout people living off taxpayer dollars and welfare have mandatory drug screening and peiple with Obama care or no insurance have ids and get monitored with their emergency room visits and accounted for.thats more of a problem then anything else