Same Buck Part Deux

[johnnyo8148]

Didn't want to hijack BowhunterNJ's thread (but feel free to combine if it makes sense), "Same Deer?", I thought that I would put everyone's detective skills to the test. I am not going to give any information (yet) about the bucks (s) you are about to see; other than to say, that the 2nd one is the one I was lucky enough to harvest during permit bow. But, is it the same buck? Please excuse that the pictures are not at the same angles -- still trying to find a few better ones.

 

 

 

[Matty]

Judging by the antler shape and markings that I can see. I would say yes, pretty likely the same deer from last year to this year (not same year).

 

However the way I would normally try to tell if it's the same deer is by markings like the throat patch, white on the legs or some other distinguishing characteristic that shouldn't change much year to year like a limp, cut tail or ear, etc. Antlers can vary too much and bucks from a certain area can share very similar traits.

 

Of course a cut ear or tail can develop between years too....Looks like the second picture, that buck has a large chunk of ear missing. 

 

The way you're posing the question though, I think it's going to end up being two different bucks in your pictures.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Matty

[BowhunterNJ]

Date of first and second pic?

[Rusty]

There are definite similarities between the 2, it could be the same deer.  

[JHbowhunter]

I need date of velvet picture, If you tell me "August 15th" I would say NO WAY is it same buck.

If you tell me July 1st, I would say "MOST LIKELY" same buck.

[johnnyo8148]

Date of first and second pic?

All good things to those who wait.

[johnnyo8148]

Ok, all great responses and thanks for taking the time to put on your detective hats. Picture number 1 was taken on 12 August, 2011; picture number 2 was taken on 19 November, 2015. I am not emphatically stating that it is the same buck, but I thought that the rack was so similar and a mark or two on the face was very similar, that there was a good chance that the two could be one in the same. I found the memory sticks from 2012, 2013, and 2014 -- one was in my wife's camera, and the other two in my son's Wii U and Nintendo DS (nothing is sacred). In any event, if it is the same deer, that is pretty cool that he lived so long....and if it is two different deer, they're closely related.

[johnnyo8148]

Oh, and not that I'm trying to seem weird or anything, but look in the buck's eye. I didn't even realize that I caught my own reflection in his eyes when I took the picture.

[JHbowhunter]

Better chance it's his offspring. The buck in first picture looks about 1.5, and buck in second picture looks about 1.5, possibly 2.5. If it is same buck, and that's all he grew in 4 years, that's some very poor genetics or nutrition. Bottom line, if that first buck was truly 5.5 years old now, he would be an absolute slammer in all likelihood and pretty darn close to unkillable. Deerage.com can confirm this if you still have the lower incisors.

[johnnyo8148]

Better chance it's his offspring. The buck in first picture looks about 1.5, and buck in second picture looks about 1.5, possibly 2.5. If it is same buck, and that's all he grew in 4 years, that's some very poor genetics or nutrition. Bottom line, if that first buck was truly 5.5 years old now, he would be an absolute slammer in all likelihood and pretty darn close to unkillable. Deerage.com can confirm this if you still have the lower incisors.

 

Yeah, that was kind of my thought as well. I've watched a few other bucks grow up in that piece and while they are not monsters like you would see in other states, the growth has been exceptional. I was hoping that the buck in pic 1 kept his antler structure throughout the years. Nonetheless, it was a great exercise.

[JHbowhunter]

•  

  Yeah, that was kind of my thought as well. I've watched a few other bucks grow up in that piece and while they are not monsters like you would see in other states, the growth has been exceptional. I was hoping that the buck in pic 1 kept his antler structure throughout the years. Nonetheless, it was a great exercise.

  Do you still have access to the lower jaw?  For 30 bucks, it's a worthy exercise to get it aged. 

[johnnyo8148]

 

•  

  Do you still have access to the lower jaw?  For 30 bucks, it's a worthy exercise to get it aged. 

 

Yes, I kept the jaw because I did want to age the deer. I know that there was a post on that a few weeks ago and I took down all of the info, so we'll see what happens.

[Matty]

Please let us know the results of the tooth analysis.

 

I know most people will disagree, but I think there's a really good chance it's the same buck. The antlers are nearly identical and the facial markings are as well. He just has a cut in his ear and greying muzzle.

 

Yeah I know, I know... 1.5 to 5.5....he should be "blown up"....and the second picture looks young if you go by the rack. I think we assume too much of wild deer and age, nutrition, genetics, etc.  I've seen bucks year after year that grow yearling sized racks. They never look more than 2.5 or so...They can be 6.5 years old and look like a baby. I've posted threads about it. I've also seen genetic freaks that are 1.5 but look like they are 3.5-5.5.

 

Looking at numerous deer of known ages has changed how I think when I try to age deer in the field.

[tinemaster]

Def different deer time length alone gives it away

[JHbowhunter]

Please let us know the results of the tooth analysis.

 

I know most people will disagree, but I think there's a really good chance it's the same buck. The antlers are nearly identical and the facial markings are as well. He just has a cut in his ear and greying muzzle.

 

Yeah I know, I know... 1.5 to 5.5....he should be "blown up"....and the second picture looks young if you go by the rack. I think we assume too much of wild deer and age, nutrition, genetics, etc.  I've seen bucks year after year that grow yearling sized racks. They never look more than 2.5 or so...They can be 6.5 years old and look like a baby. I've posted threads about it. I've also seen genetic freaks that are 1.5 but look like they are 3.5-5.5.

 

Looking at numerous deer of known ages has changed how I think when I try to age deer in the field.

 

 

I do agree but I do think "More" 5.5 year old bucks are going to weigh over 200#, be nearly unkillable, and sport a big rack with tons of mass - than not.  If you followed my story of "tripod" at all, the 10/25/2015 buck I took, I believe him to be 5.5 to 7.5 years old based on pictures since 2011...    This buck would NEVER grow much more than he had, in fact I think his best rack was in 2012 when he was a goofy 8...  Here is a year by year starting with 2011, showing you the evolution of a deer that eventually had his right rear leg "locked up" at 45 degrees (from 2013 forward but clearly injured in 2011),  and how it impacted his rack. I am pending deerage.com results. He did weigh 160# dressed, but his right ham was at least 20lbs lighter than his left, so if fully healthy, he would have weighed a lot more. I could not straighten his leg even after de-boning, it was all calcified in the joint, probably hit by car when very young.

Edited December 26, 2015 by JHbowhunter