Deer Numbers

[Rusty]

It's all we've been talking about, and justifiably so.  I know the herd is way down by me in zone 6.  I have state land on 3 sides of me and 20 years ago seeing deer was a daily event.  Not now, in the past 8 months I have seen exactly 2 deer, back in July. 

 

We need a good indicator that will show what is happening and I think car accidents might be the ticket.  Can any of you young techy types (I'm old and scared of computers) find the number of deer car accidents over the past 10 or 20 years?  This could be at the town, county or state level.   

 

If the herd is going down as we believe it is then we should see this trend in the number of deer collisions over the years. 

[LittleM]

That would be some good info to review.  Airport Road in Green was like death alley.  I always got my roadkill for my carcass cams along that Road.  Lately, not one.  And I have to ride further and further to find one.

[Myreezoning]

Rusty,,

Use to be Deer Car Collisions happened on rural roads and the Interstates I- 78,  I-80 , Rt. 195 Rt. 24 etc.

 

They're happening more in areas where there's no hunting, GSP in Westfield, Rt . in Manalapan between the shopping centers!

 

In my opinion Deer Car Collisions numbers haven't change they're just happening in weirder places.

 

Princeton curtailed hunting during the 1980s and Deer Car Collisions went up to 380 in one year within the township, when they allowed hunting the amounts of incidents were reduced dramatically.

 

Hunting helps reduce Deer Car Collisions the problem is we cannot gain access to where all the deer are!

[jerseywhitetails]

real quick.. im a police officer in southern ocean county.  15 years ago motor vehicle crashes and deer were 2 to 3 a week.  we haven't had one in 5 years.

 

ill say it again.  the state got what they wanted.  6 months or more of hunting with unlimited antlerless  deer taken.  we seen it on these type of NJ hunting forums guys who have taken many doe and give them away.   you cant keep killing and hope the deer numbers are up.  unless the state cuts back on the hunting seasons its only going to get worst.

[DV1]

Where I grew up hunting in Salem County, there were several places where deer-car collisions were common. There hasn't been one in so long, the DOT even took the deer crossing signs down years ago. Saw a list from State Farm earlier in the year of the top 25 states where drivers are most likely to hit a deer. NJ was not in the top 25. 

 

I actually believe field counts in late summer are a better indicator in my area, and they are down to about 1/10th of what they were 25 to 30 years ago.

Edited December 16, 2015 by DV1

[Rusty]

. im a police officer in southern ocean county.  15 years ago motor vehicle crashes and deer were 2 to 3 a week.  we haven't had one in 5 years.

 

 

Wow.

[BHC]

As long as the council allows the 6 months of hunting, unlimited antlerless hunting people will continue to kill, kill, kill off the herd. Remember it's not what we want or think what is best, the Council and the state care about the almighty $$$$, they pacify us by have hearings, taking our emails, etc. There was a time the herd needed to be thinned out, the objective has been met years ago, time to curtail it back. In the meantime police yourself, be selective or take what you need, some have excuses like I live off venison year around that's bullsh*t, or I have family & friends that want venison, tell them to hunt then

[BowhunterNJ]

This is an eye opening post, especially jerseywhitetails!  Not a collision in 5 years!!!  Wow is right!

I do think studying the collisions and their locations/frequency is a great gauge for the deer population here in NJ's urban areas, and also to identify areas that might still be high deer density and require more hunting access.

In more rural areas, definitely glassing the fields in the summer is a good gauge and can probably be used to determine the validity of black permits in farming areas.

[Joeybeets]

I agree deer numbers are down. But now the problem becomes if the N.J F&W cuts back on bag limits and the length of the season do you think the average hunter in NJ is still going to want to pay all the license and permit fees for less time in the woods and smaller bag limits? NJ Fish and Wildlife is already having problems with funding if they were to cut back on seasons and bag limits they will see a big drop in license and permit sales which they can not afford to do. Unless they were to lower the license and permit fees which you know will never happen. It is a tough problem with no easy answers but one thing is for sure deer numbers are down and so are the amount of hunters in the field. I know a lot of guys who talk about policing ourselves etc. but the majority of the guys who would agree to this are the minority in the hunting community overall.

Just sayin.

[BowhunterNJ]

They do need to remodel the pricing structure regardless, it's pretty absurd here...enough that my brother won't even come here from NY to hunt.

Same with turkey season...I don't even hunt it anymore due to the permit structure.

[JHbowhunter]

According to this link ---> http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/top-states-most-likely-to-hit-deer-1.aspx

 

Nationwide, 1 out of every 169 drivers will collide with deer during the coming year (issued at start of 2015)
 

 

#10 - Michigan/Virginia tied, at 1 in 97

#9 - South Carolina, 1 in 95

#8 - Mississippi, 1 in 88

#7 - Minnesota, 1 in 81

#6 - Wisconsin, 1 in 77

#5 - South Dakota, 1 in 73

#4 - Pennsylvania, 1 in 70

#3 - Iowa, 1 in 68

#2 - Montana, 1 in 63

#1 - West Virginia, 1 in 44
 

 

NJ doesn't make the cut. Ironic that the only zone 5 Doe I saw from 9/16 through all of November, hit my jeep as I drove by the Whittingham parking lot on 10/25 after a morning zone 2 hunt...  She just ran out of nowhere and hit me from the side. Saw her struggling to get into woods with broken front leg(s)... Went back to find her later, all I found was a frisky spike standing where she should have been (probably the perp)

[JHbowhunter]

So we do live in the most densely populated state. The amount of drivers on the roads at all hours, certainly provide more opportunity for collisions than any other state.  There was a time we probably lead this category, but now we don't even make the list...

 

Somehow we managed to beat down the deer herd to the point that collisions are not even an issue, but at same time developed the highest black bear densities on earth.

 

Some might say - WTF are we doing ????

[Rusty]

Princeton curtailed hunting during the 1980s and Deer Car Collisions went up to 380 in one year within the township, when they allowed hunting the amounts of incidents were reduced dramatically.

 

That might not be completely accurate, Princeton's deer population was part of my research at Rutgers and I was involved with the Princeton hunt when it first started.

 

The no discharge ordinance was in 1972.  There were 33 car accidents that year.  Over the next 10 years it climbed to 144 in 1982 and then to 227 in 1992. 

 

Hunting did play a role in helping to reduce the herd but so did a number of other factors.

 

From 2003 through 2010, hunters averaged 86.0 deer/year. Deer–vehicle averaged 96.0/year. Sharpshooting harvests averaged 154.0 deer/year.

[DV1]

I agree deer numbers are down. But now the problem becomes if the N.J F&W cuts back on bag limits and the length of the season do you think the average hunter in NJ is still going to want to pay all the license and permit fees for less time in the woods and smaller bag limits? NJ Fish and Wildlife is already having problems with funding if they were to cut back on seasons and bag limits they will see a big drop in license and permit sales which they can not afford to do. Unless they were to lower the license and permit fees which you know will never happen. It is a tough problem with no easy answers but one thing is for sure deer numbers are down and so are the amount of hunters in the field. I know a lot of guys who talk about policing ourselves etc. but the majority of the guys who would agree to this are the minority in the hunting community overall.

Just sayin.

You hit on the problem; it's all about revenue. I learned that a long time ago. 

 

The UBNJ survey is a great idea, and Jack and John, as well as the entire UBNJ Council,  are always working hard to improve things for hunters in NJ. The problem is, if the Division or F&G Council didn't ask for it, they don't want to hear it. If anything, they are only going to give lip service to it, or attempt to patronize those who present them the information from it. The biggest hurdle is that the people in charge of deer management in NJ do not hold the same values or ideas regarding deer and deer hunting as do most of us.

 

Hunters are very low on the priority list when it comes to managing the deer herd in NJ. Revenue, the social carrying capacity, farmers complaints, and home owners complaints all are more important than what we value. The only way you will get them to do anything you want is if it dovetails with what they already want to do.

 

Revenue rules the roost in the Deer Project for the Division. The entire permit system is currently structured only for revenue generation, and has no legitimate deer management purpose. That was admitted to me by the former Deer Project Leader for the Division. They backed themselves into a corner with it when they saw how much money it brings in, and when the permit system no longer had a management function, they stayed with it for the revenue benefits. This means hunters are paying plenty to hunt here, and want to get their money's worth, so they can't really back off on limits and seasons, as you point out because hunters expect a lot for what they pay.

 

It's a vicious cycle; due to the costs, hunters want to kill more, which leads to fewer deer, leading hunters to kill more because they don't know when they will see another, and even though changes need to be made, the Division can't because they fear they will lose revenue. I can tell you from some conversations that they also don't see that as a problem because they don't care if the deer population drops to 1000 deer statewide; they believe it's a self-correcting situation. When deer numbers fall low enough, people will quit hunting, deer numbers will rebound, and then people will buy licenses again. The possible win for them is that when people drop out, they can justify a license and permit fee increase, and then when there is a rebound in hunter numbers, they make more money.

 

The problem we have is the Division uses the deer herd, and deer hunters, as the primary revenue source. Years ago I proposed that they come up with a $5.00 salt water fishing license. That isn't going to hurt the wallet of anyone in NJ, there are over 600,000 salt water anglers here which translates into 3+ million dollars in revenue, and then they can actually get back to managing the deer herd the right way without fear of revenue loss significantly affecting the budget. I still feel that has to be done first, before any positive changes will be made. You have to give them a revenue safety net before they will do anything to cut back on seasons.

 

Once the Division is on board, you have to deal with the Legislature to implement the changes. That presents a bunch of other challenges.  

[Tail Chaser]

Ever time I read one of these threads it immediately goes to a discussion about unlimited harvest. Just a reminder the whole state is not zoned that way but on a whole the numbers are down . The things the whole state has in common are more yotes,more bears, and more cars. Not to mention we just had two of the longest harshest winters in a while.when malnourished and stressed a doe will abort its fawns. I'm not saying unlimited harvests aren't putting a dent in the herd,just saying there are other factors that are there 24/7 ,365.