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Where to buy an air gun?


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33 minutes ago, Gobblengrunt said:

If you are a NJ resident, go out of state to purchase an airgun (or any long gun) and bring back to NJ for your possession, it is an illegal purchase for the NJ resident.  Any long gun purchase must go through an ffl dealer if bringing back to NJ.  A gun previously owned and a new purchase (from a dealer or private) are totally different animals.  Ive arrested many people bringing in guns from PA attempting to get around our ridiculous NJ laws.  

 Is this new? (note: I'm not talking about a private, person-to-person, sale - I'm talking new sale from an out of state FFL).

Edited by mazzgolf
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6 hours ago, Gobblengrunt said:

If you are a NJ resident, go out of state to purchase an airgun (or any long gun) and bring back to NJ for your possession, it is an illegal purchase for the NJ resident.  Any long gun purchase must go through an ffl dealer if bringing back to NJ.  A gun previously owned and a new purchase (from a dealer or private) are totally different animals.  Ive arrested many people bringing in guns from PA attempting to get around our ridiculous NJ laws.  

Maybe you’ve arrested them, however you absolutely did so wrongfully if they possessed a valid FID card. Please prove me wrong…

As a NJ resident that possesses a valid firearms id card, you can purchase a black powder or air gun from an out of state retailer directly off the shelf without any paperwork whatsoever.  You can transport, possess, and hunt with that legally purchased air gun or black powder firearm as long as that firearm is legal to possess within this state (make sure no air guns have  “silencers” on the barrel) and no paperwork or registration is needed.  If, however, you purchased that black powder rifle or air rifle out of state and DO NOT possess a valid NJ FID card, then you are absolutely in trouble!  Even though the purchase you made out of state is a legal purchase within that state, you are breaking the law by possessing what nj sees as a firearm without the FID card.
 

The FID card allows you to purchase and possess long guns within the state.  The FID card ALSO allows you to purchase long guns out of state which is pretty awesome (most people don’t realize this is a perk as pa residents would have a hard time coming to nj and buying a long gun…it would have to ship to an ffl in their state, whereas an nj resident with FID card can walk out of a pa store with a long gun). Since pa doesn’t see black powder or air rifles as a firearm, then you don’t have to go through nics and paperwork etc, BUT, it’s still a legal purchase, and you’re legally allowed to possess these long guns in nj…so no laws have been broken. 
 

sorry for long post but thought my examples would make it clear for most. Any questions??!!

Sometimes I think the world has gone completely mad. And then I think, "Aw, who cares?" And then I think, "Hey, what's for supper?"

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6 hours ago, delvalhunter said:

you are breaking the law by possessing what nj sees as a firearm without the FID card.

You are right - the FID card makes possession of long guns in NJ "easier", but I would go further and say you don't need an FID card if you are transporting from place of purchase to your home/business after a legal out of state purchase, or if you are hunting with it (and traveling to/from hunting grounds) because those are exemptions from the FID, as codified in 2C:39-6 (see (e) and (f.2)) https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/2c-39/2c-39-6/

I don't see how an FID card has any bearing on out of state purchases - unless somehow the states have an agreement with NJ. Because on the face of it, out of state retailers are not obligated to follow NJ state law (e.g. if I go to Arizona and buy an air gun, are the retailers in Arizona obligated to follow NJ state law and require my FID? I don't think so).

I don't know if NJ would/could prosecute you if you attempt to legally purchase a long gun out of state from an out of state retailer (following that out of state's laws) and bring it here if you do not have an FID card - I don't see how NJ can stop interstate commerce like that. The only thing I can think of is because BassPro/Cabelas/Dick's has a brick-n-mortar presence in NJ, they may have some kind of an agreement with the NJ state government to not allow NJ residents to purchase guns in any of their out of state stores.

Again, I'm willing to be proven wrong (I'm not a lawyer, I just pretend to be one), but I can read the NJ statutes just like anyone else, and I don't see where LEGAL out of state purchases are forbidden (assuming they are also legal for me to possess in NJ - either via FID or one of the possession/transport exceptions).

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20 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

Why do you think that? I do not think that is true. Unless you are talking about an airgun with those suppressors - but that makes it an illegal gun in NJ regardless of where you bought it.

If you buy a long gun in another state legally and it is legal for you to possess in NJ (i.e not an "assault weapon" by NJ definition, you are not a felon, yadda yadda), what statute or law or admin code in NJ tells you you cannot transport that back to your home in NJ? There is no law that I have ever seen or heard of that prohibits it. You are NOT required to register long guns in NJ. You are NOT required to go through a background check by bringing in a long gun that you own into NJ.

I think people are so shell-shocked at our NJ gun laws that we are shy about these things and think "this can't possibly be legal" - but unless someone proves otherwise, I say you can buy a NJ-legal air gun out of state and bring it here, and not only that, you can do so with any long gun firearm (muzzy, shotgun, etc).

Don't just think "that is illegal" - go look it up -- what law/statute makes it illegal? I've never seen one.

Think about it. If you owned long guns and moved here - do you have to register them? Go through a background check to bring them in state? No. You don't.

Again, we are talking  LONG guns (NOT handguns - those are a different beast and it IS illegal to buy out of state and bring it in state without first going through an FFL - there is no such requirement for long guns).

I'm willing to be proven wrong by someone pointing to the statute or admin code - but I don't think I am wrong.

 

You are confusing different sets of facts and applying the wrong laws. A NJ resident cannot buy firearms out of state to skirt NJ law. An airgun out of state is not a firearm, in NJ it is. Therefore it must go through FFL.

When a NJ resident buys a long gun through Cabelas or another dealer out of state, NICS checks are done and you are good to go. They are the FFL doing the long gun transfer. Handguns must be processed through NJ FFL with a NJ handgun permit.

A non resident who legally purchases his or her guns out of state and moves in with them is good to go as long as firearms are NJ legal. Any new purchases as a NJ resident must go through NJ resident process.

You can buy the air gun out of state legally there, but once you cross the state line it isn't a lawful possession by statute. Do as you wish, myself and Gobblengrunt are telling you how to properly and legally make such a purchase.

Gobblengrunt is 100 percent correct in what he has posted

Edited by Bucndoe

There is nothing more intolerant than a liberal preaching tolerance 

God gives the toughest battles to his strongest soldiers

"Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy."

 

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1 hour ago, Bucndoe said:

When a NJ resident buys a long gun through Cabelas or another dealer out of state, NICS checks are done and you are good to go.

In that case, they are not going through the NJ state NICS/background check (they are only going through the federal NICS system). I go buy a long gun in Arizona and they aren't calling NJ state police for the NJ background check, right? But if NJ residents are beholden to NJ law even when they were physically out of state when they made the legal purchase, shouldn't that also be illegal to possess in NJ because the out of state retailer won't have called/gone through the NJ state police NICS system which is (I assume) required by NJ law -- since we wouldn't have fulfilled our obligation to NJ law to get the NJ background checks that gun should (by this reasoning) be illegal for the NJ resident to possess in NJ.

That sounds screwed up - but I don't see how you get around it if the rule is "NJ residents must follow NJ state law even when purchasing out of state".

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12 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

In that case, they are not going through the NJ state NICS/background check (they are only going through the federal NICS system). I go buy a long gun in Arizona and they aren't calling NJ state police for the NJ background check, right? But if NJ residents are beholden to NJ law even when they were physically out of state when they made the legal purchase, shouldn't that also be illegal to possess in NJ because the out of state retailer won't have called/gone through the NJ state police NICS system which is (I assume) required by NJ law -- since we wouldn't have fulfilled our obligation to NJ law to get the NJ background checks that gun should (by this reasoning) be illegal for the NJ resident to possess in NJ.

That sounds screwed up - but I don't see how you get around it if the rule is "NJ residents must follow NJ state law even when purchasing out of state".

NICS stands for National Instant Criminal Background search of which NJ is a participant

The NJ NICS is only used by NJ licensed dealers with FFL’s and that is how they access the system

Edited by Bucndoe

There is nothing more intolerant than a liberal preaching tolerance 

God gives the toughest battles to his strongest soldiers

"Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy."

 

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19 minutes ago, Bucndoe said:

The NJ NICS is only used by NJ licensed dealers with FFL’s and that is how they access the system

This is getting off topic but -- why are NJ retailers forced to go through that NJ system then? Can a retailer say, "No, I don't want to go through the NJ system (and incur the added costs and delays that go with that) - I'll just go directly to the federal system like every other retailer in every other state does since I'll be going through the same exact background checks that the NJ state police are doing."

In NJ we have to pay money and most times incur days of delays on top of paying extra... if the NJ state NICS check does no extra background checks above and beyond the federal NICS system that, say, DE or PA goes through - why are NJ retailers forced to go through that system at extra cost and extra delay? Why does NJ even HAVE that extra layer of bureaucracy?

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2 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

This is getting off topic but -- why are NJ retailers forced to go through that NJ system then? Can a retailer say, "No, I don't want to go through the NJ system (and incur the added costs and delays that go with that) - I'll just go directly to the federal system like every other retailer in every other state does since I'll be going through the same exact background checks that the NJ state police are doing."

In NJ we have to pay money and most times incur days of delays on top of paying extra... if the NJ state NICS check does no extra background checks above and beyond the federal NICS system that, say, DE or PA goes through - why are NJ retailers forced to go through that system at extra cost and extra delay? Why does NJ even HAVE that extra layer of bureaucracy?

These questions I can't answer

There is nothing more intolerant than a liberal preaching tolerance 

God gives the toughest battles to his strongest soldiers

"Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy."

 

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7 hours ago, Bucndoe said:

You are confusing different sets of facts and applying the wrong laws. A NJ resident cannot buy firearms out of state to skirt NJ law. An airgun out of state is not a firearm, in NJ it is. Therefore it must go through FFL.

When a NJ resident buys a long gun through Cabelas or another dealer out of state, NICS checks are done and you are good to go. They are the FFL doing the long gun transfer. Handguns must be processed through NJ FFL with a NJ handgun permit.

A non resident who legally purchases his or her guns out of state and moves in with them is good to go as long as firearms are NJ legal. Any new purchases as a NJ resident must go through NJ resident process.

You can buy the air gun out of state legally there, but once you cross the state line it isn't a lawful possession by statute. Do as you wish, myself and Gobblengrunt are telling you how to properly and legally make such a purchase.

Gobblengrunt is 100 percent correct in what he has posted

Sorry. You’re 100 pct wrong.  I’d suggest you reach out to Evan Nappen, gun guru lawyer in NJ for clarification.  A legal purchase is a legal purchase regardless of which state it’s purchased in. NJ will absolutely allow you to have that air rifle/muzzleloader as long as you are legally allowed to possess it in NJ. 

Sometimes I think the world has gone completely mad. And then I think, "Aw, who cares?" And then I think, "Hey, what's for supper?"

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7 minutes ago, delvalhunter said:

Sorry. You’re 100 pct wrong.  I’d suggest you reach out to Evan Nappen, gun guru lawyer in NJ for clarification.  A legal purchase is a legal purchase regardless of which state it’s purchased in. NJ will absolutely allow you to have that air rifle/muzzleloader as long as you are legally allowed to possess it in NJ. 

Nope. Nappen ain't going to tell me anything I don't know already. Seen him in court before. Its considered a firearm by statute in NJ and needs to be purchased properly as such. Buying it or any other firearm out of state to bypass a NICS check and NJ laws because it isn't regulated elsewhere is a no no. Not saying it doesn't happen, I'm giving the black and white with no gray. Do as you wish

Edited by Bucndoe

There is nothing more intolerant than a liberal preaching tolerance 

God gives the toughest battles to his strongest soldiers

"Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy."

 

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3 minutes ago, Bucndoe said:

Nope. Its a firearm in NJ and needs to be purchased properly. Buying it out of state to bypass a NICS check and NJ laws because it isn't regulated elsewhere is a no no. Not saying it doesn't happen, I'm giving the black and white with no gray. Do as you wish

Prove me wrong. I’m not one to argue but you’re absolutely wrong. Here is your proof. Read it and weep!  From Evan himself 😂  I’d strongly suggest every nj  gun owner read his book.  It’s free online to read too  lots of great info from the all-knowing nj gun lawyer  

432501D7-A925-4719-AC73-1C1A25825B48.jpeg

Edited by delvalhunter
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Sometimes I think the world has gone completely mad. And then I think, "Aw, who cares?" And then I think, "Hey, what's for supper?"

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15 minutes ago, delvalhunter said:

Prove me wrong. I’m not one to argue but you’re absolutely wrong. Here is your proof. Read it and weep!  From Evan himself 😂 

432501D7-A925-4719-AC73-1C1A25825B48.jpeg

You proved my point. The original question was relating to buying an air rifle in a state where it isn't considered a firearm and bringing it back here. I am not talking about what NJ would consider a legal purchase through an FFL. Federal law and NJ law are two different animals. You could still be charged in NJ and go through alot of time, money, and effort to fight through it. Why, to save money on a NICS check  and then pay Nappen ? Do as you wish, but when the lawyer that you quote says things are questionable and a pitfall why risk it

A very similar scenario is Federal Law allows retired law enforcement officers to carry hollow nose ammo but NJ Law does not. A charge would be a violation of NJ law. They are both right and both wrong depending on which scenario you may find yourself in

Edited by Bucndoe

There is nothing more intolerant than a liberal preaching tolerance 

God gives the toughest battles to his strongest soldiers

"Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy."

 

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