Ethical Shots / Ethical Weapons / Ethical Ammunition

[LittleM]

Some provocative posts generating some serious discussion here recently so here's another:

 

Recently I have read discussions on the net regarding the use of buckshot and its perceived correlation with "slob hunters".  Of course, the discussion ranged from its effective use at the correct distance in the right hands to that it should be banned.   Pics were even posted of deer allegedly hit with buckshot.  The conversation went as far as to say that no shot should be taken at a running deer.  Shots should be taken on calm, standing deer to ensure a quick, clean kill.

 

If that's the case (and I agree that the highest percentage quick, clean kill is when a deer is calmly standing, unaware of the hunter) why is it considered sacrilege to shoot a pheasant on the ground or a duck on the water?  Wouldn't the highest percentage of achieving a quick ,clean kill be when a bird is not in motion?  Shouldn't all animals be treated with the same amount of respect?  What makes a deer better than a pheasant, chukar, duck, or goose?

 

There is a place in Green Township where both ducks and geese congregate to overnight.  I cannot count on both my hands how many of both I have seen laying on the ice / floating on the water during the season.  They get hit, make it to the Pequest, and then die.  Couldn't that be minimized by shooting them after they have landed in the decoys?

 

 

[Rusty]

That's a question I have asked numerous times.  Having taught hunter ed for 25 years, I have spent a lot of time preaching the ethics of waiting for a high probability shot on deer that will make a quick ethical kill.  Why don't we apply that same thinking to all game???  

[BowhunterNJ]

It's a great question, unfortunately it all comes down to the individual.  I think many guns/bows are fully capable of killing deer and other animals, while others aren't suitable.  And sometimes in the hands of certain hunters, even capable guns/bows aren't suitable (without practice).  I think shooting running/flying game comes down to an element of skill, and it is a lesser "percentage" shot due to it's nature (shooting a moving target).  But that doesn't mean it isn't possible with regularity, and for some with almost certainty.  The problem is, hunting and shooting are recreational, and most (including myself) don't practice those shots frequently enough to do them with any level of consistency (may be part of why I don't do that type of hunting), which is what every game deserves.  A common creed is to shoot within your limits, i.e. with a bow, know your maximum comfortable range and don't exceed it.  With guns, I think many hunters feel they have "more forgiveness" in errant shots, and that just isn't the case.  Nevertheless, shooting at running (deer drives) and flying (upland and waterfowl) has been around a long time and that won't change...the only thing that can change is those taking afield practice with those weapons more in a manner that reflects their way of hunting.  I think the closest medium for it is shooting clays, along with knowing your firearms and respective loads very well.  The problem is, in this day and age of rush, rush, rush...few have the time, and although it's no excuse, it won't hold them back from going afield.

[Bucksnbows]

I'm in the camp where if you can fire your weapon well, shooting running or flying game is just fine by me.  I began deer hunting with buckshot but only because I only had a single shot 20 gauge.  I later moved to a 12 gauge SxS and still with buckshot before finally getting myself a decent slug gun in my 20s.  So long as you practice and know the limitations of your weapon, shooting moving game is fine IMO.

 

I think one of the main reasons buckshot gets maligned is that it is often used during deer drives when shooting at running game can be far more dangerous because of all the other hunters around you.  But safety is different than lethality of the buckshot.  That said, given modern slug guns, I don't understand why so many still use buckshot because of the lack of range when comparing the two rounds.  However, so long as you use it within its range, there's nothing wrong with it.

[CJ3a]

I think most people don't understand how close the buckshot range is.

[Bucksnbows]

I think most people don't understand how close the buckshot range is.

 

Or any other weapon type.  How many times have you seen waterfowlers unload on ducks or geese at 75 or more yards, a pheasant hunter taking a poke at 60 yards, etc.?  My best friend came into our PA camp many years ago before range finders were out to get our help looking for a deer he shot "at 25 yards" with his bow.  When we got to his stand and walked to where the deer was at the shot, it was 47 yards    Needless to say, he missed it cleanly.

[LittleM]

 

Or any other weapon type.

 

Exactly my point.  Buckshot should not be singled out as the only offender.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Am I the only one who walks away from his stand/blind to mark the distance? I've been doing this for years before bow season so I can set my targets and pins during practice so I know what kind of shot I'm going to be taking if the opportunity presents itself. Really helps when you have to estimate distance and line up a shot.

[Bucksnbows]

Am I the only one who walks away from his stand/blind to mark the distance? I've been doing this for years before bow season so I can set my targets and pins during practice so I know what kind of shot I'm going to be taking if the opportunity presents itself. Really helps when you have to estimate distance and line up a shot.

 

I'm lazy and just use my rangefinder, but I always take some readings in any new stand even if I'm gun hunting.  I take ranges in likely openings where I think my shots will come from and make mental notes.  For bow, I like to know what is 20, 30 and 50 yards away all around me.  I won't shoot beyond 30 yards, but at 50 and coming in, I may want to get ready to draw if I think the timing is right.  For shotgun, I only want to know 75, 100 and 150 knowing my shots are going to likely always be under 100 yards.  With a rifle, I only worry about the edges of what I can see which are often under 200 yards in most stands I hunt in either PA or NY states.  My 7 mm Rem mag is dead on at any of those ranges and even beyond that 200 yard mark if I ever need to shoot that far (haven't yet in 40 years, but you never know).

[BowhunterNJ]

Am I the only one who walks away from his stand/blind to mark the distance? I've been doing this for years before bow season so I can set my targets and pins during practice so I know what kind of shot I'm going to be taking if the opportunity presents itself. Really helps when you have to estimate distance and line up a shot.

I realize you're not exactly a "technology" guy, but they invented these awesome things called rangefinders! You should check em out!

I'm just messing with you, I used to do the same thing back before rangefinders. Any reason you don't use one?

[LittleM]

I'll pace off once in awhile.  I don't own a rangefinder either.  With a bow, I won't shoot unless they are real close, 15 yards and under close.  I'll shoot out to a hundred yards with my muzzleloader and slug guns.  I'll play around with my new Savage 220 this year and if I like how it shoots out past 100 yards, I might consider a range-finder.  Same for when I get my cross-bow (for shots out to 30 yards).

[Haskell_Hunter]

I realize you're not exactly a "technology" guy, but they invented these awesome things called rangefinders! You should check em out!

I'm just messing with you, I used to do the same thing back before rangefinders. Any reason you don't use one?

 

Even those I use technology to a fault, I am sort of a luddite.  I know, doesn't make sense, but I remember the days when we didn't have all this technology, and I've been without power enough times to realize that you can't rely on technology.  Certain kinds, yes, but electronics no way.  I had too many electronics fail on me enough times in my life to realize it was a lucrative career, nothing more.  So although I have a GPS, I can still navigate by the stars, a directional compass, or with a sextant.  

[BowhunterNJ]

Never hurts to have a backup sextant or three!

 

 

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[Bucksnbows]

Even those I use technology to a fault, I am sort of a luddite.  I know, doesn't make sense, but I remember the days when we didn't have all this technology, and I've been without power enough times to realize that you can't rely on technology.  Certain kinds, yes, but electronics no way.  I had too many electronics fail on me enough times in my life to realize it was a lucrative career, nothing more.  So although I have a GPS, I can still navigate by the stars, a directional compass, or with a sextant.  

 

 

I don't rely solely on technology or electronics and always have a compass on me, but I still use the amazing tools we have these days like GPS and rangefinders and even smart phone apps.  I always enter the woods with a full charge on my phone and have a spare battery for my rangefinder.  If they fail, I have GPS (also with spare batteries), can walk off distances, and have my compass.  No reason not to ignore modern technology.  But I agree that you want some form of back up and hence the compass.  That said, I mainly hunt NJ or lands in PA and now NY that I know intimately and from which there is always a road less than a mile away in any direction.  I haven't felt lost in decades.  Even when I hunted out west in Colorado, Iowa or Missouri, I always used a compass and always found my way back in any weather.

[BowhunterNJ]

In NJ, I just use modern tech and figure if something fails and I get lost, I'll walk to the sound of the cars on the road. If I was somewhere in bigger woods (not in NJ), there is no way I'd be without a compass and probably a backup compass too.